Blocked over tor?

I run a tor exit node, and I seem to be unable to connect from my house; I can connect just fine from elsewhere.

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Yes if I recall correctly this server doesn’t allow the use of Tor. Maybe @matburt or @anoek can confirm this for you.

Unfortunately we’ve had numerous issues with abusive users using Tor to get around bans, so we block all exit nodes now. If you want to shoot me your IP address in a private message I can remove it from the Tor list, though if someone gets banned while coming from your IP you’ll end up in the same boat again.

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Makes sense. I wonder, though, if there are similarly-easy-to-implement but less restrictive options. The first two ideas (not necessarily any good) that come to mind:

  • Require a certain trust level (e.g. TL2, not that I think that would help my situation) to log in over tor.
  • Disallow account creation over tor.

Anyway, thanks.

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I wholeheartedly second this. Please consider changing your decision and looking into alternatives as @rpglover64 suggested. There is at least one place with suggestions on the tor-project wiki IIRC with similar suggestions. I can quickly look it up. We should all be interested in enabling this important way of success to the internet (and it’s not only about anonymous but open access).

Thank you very much.

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thirded! don’t block tor, please!

i don’t have any skin in the tor game, and i know you guys think about these kinds of things
a lot, so these are more kind of random thoughts.

rather than trying to exclude bad actors reactively, maybe raise the bar (in the vein that rpglover64
was looking at, but more gradually), so that users that haven’t invested a certain amount of time
or money can’t really negatively impact other players

i guess the major downside of that is you increase the friction for new users (by not letting
them play as dans, by not letting them into the big-boy chat, not commenting during games, no correspondence…whatever set of restrictions make sense), which in turn would limit the
attractiveness and growth of the site.

are most of the abuses you try to head off chat or play related?

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Did you mean this?

That one’s good, too and something like here.

We can certainly see the value in Tor and I can appreciate why someone would want to use this.

We don’t want to build artificial barriers for new players and new users. As you said @yuri the friction would be really high. Imagine if you were a new player and wanted to ask for help in main chat but we required you to be a site member for a certain amount of time before being able to do that. (Chat trolling was a big problem with the Tor trolls)

“Stickyness” for new Go players is already pretty low without building those additional barriers and to be honest, that scenario happens far more often than folks asking why we ban Tor. Incidentally this is the first request I’ve seen in the 2 years since we did it.

Like I said, I’d love for this to not be the case but I also remember what that week leading up to the block was like and I don’t want to go through that or put our moderators through that again. Our time is pretty precious… this is something we all do in our spare time… I’d rather spend that time building features that have the biggest impact to our users and potential users.

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I’m glad to hear that.

I have to admit I’m a bit puzzled here. Certainly (and maybe still unfortunately with all the news - you know what I mean :slight_smile: ) the majority (even) of online/OGS Go players won’t even know what Tor is or what it’s all about, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be enough reason to think about this and to think about ways to circumvent the totally legitimate and important question of that kind of (very sad, indeed) abuse you describe and still enable all the other uses. OC This is another kind of control vs. freedom discussion. Also the bad examples (“Tor trolls” as you call them) are the ones you hear about. I’d still want to say that that’s not what Tor is really about (which I think, you are already aware of).

Then why not consider some of the possibly simpler solutions/workarounds already mentioned like limiting the blocking on signup of new accounts, as @rpglover64 said, for now, and see if that already helps the situation?

I totally understand that and in no way mean to say otherwise. Also I appreciate that we can have this discussion here in the first place and I hope this doesn’t come along as theoretical nitpicking or something, because I think this really practically matters and as said multiple times maybe there is even a rather simple solution/ compromise.

Thank you, again for reading this! :slight_smile:

I will say I do like his suggestion about blocking new account setup from Tor, or perhaps even not a hard block but something like allow maybe one new account from Tor per hour, something like that. Of course there are some tangential things to think about with something like that, such as the case where a nefarious individual creates accounts on their cell phone, then logs in with tor to be a jerk, we’d have to figure out how to catch that too. (And in case you’re wondering, yes we do get very persistent trolls who would do such things).

Regardless, I think it’s something we’d like to do eventually, but we do have some fairly pressing issues and really exciting features that we feel should probably take priority at this time.

In the meantime, anyone finding this post that does have this issue, just shoot us a note and we’ll happily add you to a white list.

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Thank you! :blush:

I don’t think a “one account per hour” restriction would address the problem of persistent malice (though it would probably address spam).

Discourse records the registration IP. It also (by default) blocks an IP from registering more than 3 users unless one of the registrations is TL2 or higher or staff. I don’t know how the forum is linked to the rest of the site, but it might be worth looking into if/when you want to address this issue.

Given that the site is inaccessible at all through tor, not even for anonymous browsing, I don’t think too many people will take you up on that. Maybe at least a friendlier 403 forbidden page instead of just appearing to hang (of have people tried to DDOS from tor)?

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I was just banned (I think that was the reason) when I switched my browser to TOR mode (for a reason unrelated to OGS). What sucked was that the account stayed banned when I tuned TOR mode off. This felt a bit heavy-handed, does this mean one has to be careful and never let the browser reftesh an OGS tab when they’ve turned on TOR?

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No the “ban” shouldn’t stick with you like that, from what I can tell everything is cleared up for you at this point, can you confirm?

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Yes, but it only got resolved when I sent an email and requested the ban to be reviewed. My account was certainly effectively blocked - I could not access OGS from home (with TOR turned off) from my phone or from my work - until I got a response for the email stating that the issue had been resolved.

Does that mean there may have been something else going on in addition to the TOR block?