Broken Ladder Game (Review Request 13x13 board, 15-13k skill level)

Hello everyone! I was playing a game awhile ago on the 13x13 board and realized my opponent (I believe we were both 13k at the time) (I played black) was attempting to make a large center moyo, so I attempted to break it up. I ended up succeeding in doing so with a broken ladder. I had a few questions on it though: should that have worked? Could the opponent with more careful play have killed the new group? Obviously the right ladder stones were sacrificed, but the left ones didn’t look secure when I analyzed the game later. His moves weren’t nearly aggressive enough if it was “killable”, in any case, it ended up working, Should it have worked though? Any and all gameplay tips appreciated from anyone who wants to share!
Here’s the link:

hi. @Phoenix4217

i made a review for you :slight_smile::

cool as the idea of a broken ladder actually working might be. there is a reason why it happens very rarely. in this game, by playing the ladder out you took a great risk, which (considering the board position) was just not necessary. your opponent could not exploit the weaknesses you left behind, but there were chances for white to fight back into the game.

keeping it simple would have done the trick as well, without giving white a fighting chance.

also: try not to overestimate the centre. (we all fall pray to it though :slight_smile:)

congrats on the win!

I think, in this game, the broken ladder was a bad idea. Your opponent could have pretty easily stopped you from making eyes and killed all of the ladder stones. If the ladder stones die, you haven’t actually reduced white’s moyo, you’ve just given him extra points.

It also wasn’t necessary. You could have played on the other side of the weak group and just pushed it for a few moves, extending solidly into white’s moyo. If the white stones are going to live, anyways, there’s no need to create a bunch of weaknesses in your stones.

That being said, it’s a really cool idea! There’s a pretty famous game with a similar theme, played by Lee Sedol: He plays a broken ladder, and uses it to win a fight on the other side of the board, as well as to secure strong influence. Going beyond conventional wisdom like this is a good idea, even if only because you get burned and gain a better understanding of why the convention was wise. In this specific game, you got away with it, but probably shouldn’t have. :slight_smile:

In general, I’d recommend going through games like this and trying to find a way your opponent could’ve punished your move. Here’s a review I made, with a few critical variations:

There’s a line for how you could’ve gotten a good result without a ladder, and a line for how your opponent could’ve responded to the ladder. I figured this was the critical juncture in the game, so I didn’t review the rest.

Thank you so much for the response! Yep, I’ve watched Nick Sibicky’s review of the game, that was brilliant.
Firstly: I kind of thought they should have died, I didn’t now what he would do it, but his responses felt weak (especially some small captures, etc.) You are absolutely right on just pushing in, I didn’t see that at all at the time- awesome! Upon further review, the points were pretty close anyway, so one could even argue that the attack was relatively unnecessary- I just got excited at the prospect of winning with a broken ladder (and trying something new!) Fantastic review, thanks for all of your help!

Thank you for the response and review! Fantastic, I did not see the weakness in the peep until you made that review. Yeah, that reduction would have worked, and I was pretty sure (in retrospect) the ladder stones should have died- I think I got a bit over excited! :slight_smile: I realized that point count afterwards as well- I overestimate the center a ton in my games. Thanks so much for the review, I learned a lot!

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