Maybe Iād rather like to play H14, after allā¦
H14
D15
K16
It would be more of a surround.
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Hypothetical question. If yebellz has one of the following shapes:
(the idea is to turn the points around H16 / F16 into four eyes)
ā¦ how would we beat it?
I think maybe we need to play at the points that cut into the eyes rather than the points which extend the alternating structure, i.e.
ā¦ this would enable us to later capture the stones and destroy the eyes.
Of course this is just speculation though.
But, we would only know this is successful if those stones had been revealed alreadyā¦ Makes it a good strategy, but a blind one. We donāt know whether weāre killing the group, or whether weāre killing nothing and yebellz is happily making life at the bottom of the board 
Meanwhile, those stones are likely to be in atari upon placement alreadyā¦
Finally revealed stones are likely to remain vulnerable as well, since connecting them would give away the location of other stones.
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Even if multiple stones end up in atari, at least yebellz can only capture one of them 
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What do you think about this proposal?
The stones J16 and G14 are trying to cut into the potential eyes. It seems quite likely that these stones may end up in atari though, or even worse, get captured without yebellz adding a move.
The E14 stone also cuts into an eye at F15 and could help us capture back next move in case G14 gets captured.
ā
I think we should aim at preventing expansion of the group first, before throwing stones in places that are ideal as eyes.
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E14 may be a good move, though. But I think red D15 is quite deadly, stillā¦
Hm coming up with a strategy that wins in all possible cases seems extremely difficult. I think we have to decide which possible configurations of yebellz we think are likely, and then use a strategy which defeats that.
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Why do you think that D15 is important?
Because it makes sure that E16 cannot become an eye: the red stones that may be in the corner would need to be connected to the rest of the group solidly. Simultaneously, a red stone at D15 would be quite nice for red in connecting stuff up
It simultaneously strengthens the two yellow stones, of course, which is nice too
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Sorry if Iām throwing out too many ideas. I need to go to sleep soon so this will be the last for today:
Seems likely that at least one of the stones on the side will be a collision, but at least that way weāll have a better idea of what weāre working against.
The D16 stone could also be at D15 if thatās better, Iām not sure.
With D15, I would be down for that as well
@shinuito? Can we get this move in before @martin3141 sleeps? 
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We donāt have to play that right now, it was just one idea. I find the position (and the possibilities) fascinating and donāt mind if you want to take your time to consider. Iām definetely open for suggestions, too.
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One last (small) comment: Since G17 is on the first line, we can capture it with three moves. That means that if yebellz wants this stone to be part of the eventually living group, yebellz needs stones at J17 and E17 in place, in order to immediately re-capture.
//Edit: I guess the re-capture could happen anyway, but if one of our stones F17 or H17 survives, that could open up more captures. So basically yebellz needs to make sure thatās no problem.
What exactly does that tell us? Unfortunately I donāt know I canāt think clearly anymore, I really need to sleep.
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This is actually a pretty great idea, except that thereās a chance that F17 or H17 is filled, which would basically mean weād more or less pass a turn.
However, it would be a bit strange for F17 and H17 to be filled, since it seems bad for red to do so, at least until now. Capturing G17 would give us one of three things:
-
We immediately get recaptured, either all of us or some of us which means weāre back at this stage of the board with extra knowledge and no new stones played by yebellz. In case only some get captured we get to extend that stone to remove potential eyes. For example:
Here we gain the knowledge of the E17 stone, and if J15 and K16 are secretly already in place, J17 ruins a potential eye. -
We donāt get recaptured, which means one of us can play G17 ourselves making sure thereās only one potential eye there, instead of three. Thereās two options:
If the G16 stone extends to G17, then itās possible that our F17 or H17 stones get captured, if either E17 or J17 are in place. If neither of those are in place G17 will be suicide, though, and yebellz may reclaim it on the next turn.
The other option:
If H17 extends, we will not gain information about the possible existence of a J17 stone (and similar for extending F17, knowing E17), however, the G17 stone will definitely kill G16, and thus collapse three possible eyes into a single one. This seems like something amazingly good for us to me. -
F17 or H17 is filled, which at least reveals the G16 stone and all connected stones as well, so this gives us more information. Of course the price is that we donāt eliminate eyespace and that yebellz gets to move basically for free; however, if F17 and/or H17 are filled, there was not much eyespace to begin with.
Iād say this is a seriously good option to consider.
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Sorry I wasnāt online. Iām need to sleep now, but looks good, happy to play d15
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I like the idea. If yebellz recaptures, we trade turns and get some additional information. If yebellz does not recapture (which seems necessary, unless yebellz has stones in place at both J17 and E17), then we could double-down and try to capture another stone in the pattern, for example by playing E16 and F15.
I was a bit tired to take this in last night.
So idea is to capture the g17 stone we know is there in the hopes of ruining eye space.
Itās very hard to judge this kind of tactic because thereās lots of unaccounted for stones.
@Vsotvep you have 9 stones on the board is it? So yebellz probably has 10? Does that make 5 invisible ones other than the ponnuki ones.
If yebellz just had stones at k16 and j14 which look like nice shape, capturing the g17 doesnāt reveal anything, and can be answered with an invisible Atari at j17 and I donāt know our follow up.
If anyone but me tries g17 we just self Atari the other two color stones. Similarly if red answers at e17 it would have to be Martin playing g17 capturing our other two stones and itās a bad result unlessā¦
We assume some position like the above and continue to go after the ponnuki stones, like
If the shape is any more solidly connected rather than loose we might just end up passing one of our moves to reveal some stones and then still self capturing our own stones giving back the eye space.
So something like this might be attackable this way
But some solid shape like this and itāll probably fail spectacularly
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Our follow up is to have G17 been played by either blue or green in your example: that captures the yellow stone at G16, and fills up G17. With G17 ours, itās impossible for H17, G16 and F17 to all become eyes, instead only G17 can become a (two-spaced) eye. So we steal two eyes with this:
Suppose yebellz is trying to make something like this:
If we capture G17:
yebellz now has to recapture immediately, revealing to us the existence of E17 and / or J17. We captured one stone, yebellz places the exact same stone back where it was, so weāre in the same position as before, but have more information.
If yebellz does not recapture immediately, we play G17 ourself:
This will definitely capture our G16 stone and possibly our F17 stone, but weāve collapsed three eyes to become one!
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As for who should play what, I think our strongest plan is to capture this stone, and then next move be able to defend on the left side with yellow stones, and on the right side with green stones. That makes it best if I would be the one that possibly fills up G17, since my stones are not necessarily as valuable on the outside.
Hence, I suggest we play:
F17
G16
H17
since Iām a bit more worried of a stone being at J17 than at F17, it would be good to test that side in case there is no recapture.