Discussion about Q16,R17,R16,Q17,O17,O18

At position Q16,R17,R16,Q17,O17,O18, @duchy started the conversation:

I have seen this move a few times (double-digit kyu games). White’s best move must be to cut at P17. Does black have any good follow ups after that? Or is black at P18 just a trash move?

( FYI @AdamR )

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Sorry, thought that this would fill in the move I am talking about. The move that I am talking about after white at O18 is black at P18.

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@duchy said:

FYI comment above meant to be about black moving at P18 after the current position.

( FYI @AdamR )

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It doesn’t seem very good. White should play the cut, as you’ve said, then extend out. So it would be like Black cutting at P18 here: https://online-go.com/joseki/15698. Black threatens that cut when he plays the hane at S17 in joseki 15698 but the timing is important or else you’re giving up too much.

edit: I quickly looked in a database of 5 and 9 kyu games and that mistake is made pretty often. Thank you for asking about it and contributing!


This fits our criteria for including mistakes that players are likely to make, so I added a variation for it. Since there’s no source yet, I put only the most obvious insights in the description.


Thank you both very much for your responses! It’s nice to have something worth contributing for once…

Was this the best place to raise this issue (as in, via the Joseki dictionary)? Or would it be better in the future to try a different method?

Commenting in the dictionary and following up in the forum is perfect.