Guess rank game


#101

9k

Stronger than me, but not dazzlingly so :slight_smile:


#102

Top left was strange, clever, but also waaay too aggressive for b.

I’d say these guys are probably a bit stronger than me, so probably like 3 or 4 kyu (OGS), which I think translates to 1 or 2 kyu KGS these days.


#103

I think they’re around 1k. Hard to explain why, the play throughout just seems reminiscent of that level to me.


#104

I like the global strategies that were implemented, but some of the local moves feel really strange. I’ll pick 7k based on that.


#105

I think all the answers came in, let’s reveal the truth. Can’t do mentions this time, because more than 10 participants.

Gurxtav 1k
bugcat 1k
wurfmaul3 2k
lovecall 3k
mekriff 3.5k
kyulearner 5k
kingkas 6k
Hrewsahgs 7k
BHydden 9k
GreenAsJade 9k
Jokes_Aside 11k
Answer

The answer is 2d. Time control was kinda fast, but not blitz really, 5m+5*1m45s, and they did spend 20-30 seconds per move. So I guess OGS dans are fake? Black indeed looks stronger than white, after that game black climbed to 5d, but at the moment of the game both had stable ratings so I blame Glicko. Can maybe dans explain how this game could be 2d game, @lovecall, @wurfmaul3?

If you have any suggestions as to how to pick these games, please do tell me.

https://online-go.com/game/13022691


#106

I don’t know, it’s normal that we underestimate the strength of the players, right? Other than that, it’s not surprising that white looks weak if black is very strong. I didn’t really analyse the game, but I don’t see clear mistakes by black.


#107

I suppose black knowing he was ahead is the reason why he was slacking so much in the key fight. However considering the time settings I find it staggering that neither side played particularily sharply in that game. Is it possible that this game was a set-up ? ^^ I did put my estimate based on that single element, and now if I look back on the game I agree that it’s not easy to find elementary mistakes and general techniques are quite solid. I would have never guessed dan players though…


#108

Well, the only reason I guessed 3k is because of move 14. It is not a dan’s move at all; too weird. So my guess is it was a misclick but white didn’t bother to ask for undo. I can see no other reason why dan players would play that (or maybe I just overestimated how strong dan are?) Their shapes knowledge is already put them in high kyu in my opinion however the move 14 prevented me from thinking white is dan…Sometimes rank can become stable before reaching real rank too, I think. So yeah, maybe black is already much stronger than white during the game.


#109

You should list the rank of the guesser along with their guess.

I’m guessing that this round just goes to show that most of us have no idea what a dan game looks like :slight_smile:

(I also missed that it was quite a fast game)


#110

what well I guess the moves were so good I didn’t understand them so I thought it was bad… (if I redid my guess before seeing ans I would have guessed 5-7k)


#111

I want more rank guessing games


#112

I have never guessed, but I do enjoy the discussion a lot, so here’s another game. It’s another OGS game, it has Chinese rules with 7.5 komi, the time controls were 15m + 5 x 0:30 byo-yomi, so pretty fast-paced, and it took 40 minutes in total. Both players are the same rank.


https://online-go.com/api/v1/games/14011728/sgf

I’ll post the answer in a few days.


#113

I’ll start the bidding at 3k


#114

I’m no good at this! I’m baffled by what I see as contradictions. My first impression was that the players are DDK, because they engage in a sprawling local fight while 3/4 of the board is still open. I can’t blame W because she gets the best of it, but B plays sanrensei without any attempt to form a moyo and chooses an inferior joseki in response to the initial approach. Yet, that joseki is pretty obscure, isn’t it, and they play it correctly for six moves, suggesting at least a strong sdk. I addition, I think B’s F3 approach is very odd—the worst choice of the four remaining directions where an approach could be made—right into a ready-made pincer. This was too much! I give up.


#115

Conrad Melville’s point about the joseki doesn’t mean a whole lot, since that’s actually semi-common at low SDK to high DDK (mostly in line with the meta) i think black was maybe worried about jumping out from the pincer, r6 is kinda weird to me, but reminiscent of some 3-3 invasion joseki.

black’s choice of ko (but not ko) on bottom right for the four stones is an impossibly bad result that can only occur from trying to imitate tesuji, indicating strong DDK/weak SDK, probably around 8-9k. K15 also seems much inferior to H16 in the top, also indicating 9-10k, and then white’s treating his picnic ko as an all-dominating ko is also something I expect at that level, G9 is a misread that even a 7k should be able to get in 30s byo-yomi, or maybe a bad trade, either way, not any higher than 7k.

In conclusion, I’m gonna say these people are 9k.


#116

It was the joseki and tesuji that made me think upper SDK, because I don’t see that stuff in games I play, towards the SDK end of DDK. But maybe anything SDK is still so far above me I can’t distinguish :slight_smile:

I do think this game would be more tractable with slower games to guess on.


#117

Life took me away from go. Multiple times I wanted to post another game, but didn’t have time or sometimes mood.

In this game I wanted to point out couple of things. O4 is higher SDK move, usually. And following it joseki is obviously not something a weak player know (it’s not correspondence, remember!). O6 is a nice nose hitting tesuji, very good shape. However it’s weird how easily black let white live in upper-right. I would expect more fighting spirit from strong players. Exchange at the bottom from J3 to K5 is either something strong players would play or really weak ones :stuck_out_tongue:. And notice ko in bottom-left, how strong were you when you got confident with it, hm? Endgame didn’t look particularly strong to me though.

It definitely looks like these guys aren’t bozos. As usual, hard to pinpoint exact number. So I’ll just watch.


#118

I’ll guess 1D, but I can’t explain F9, G9.


#119

@S_Alexander rightly pointed out I forgot to remove the game link from the sgf file. Oops!

I might have spoiled the game for some of the more clever people who can’t resist the urge to cheat (I can’t blame you, I would do the same, probably). Editing my previous post won’t solve the problem, since the sgf-link appears to be permanent even though I removed the game from my library. Therefore I’ll cut this round short prematurely and start a fresh one immediately.

@GreenAsJade: 3k
@mekriff: 9k
@Gurxtav: 1d
@Conrad_Melville: Confusion

Answer

Gurxtav was spot on, it was a 1d game. Interestingly enough once again it seems we overestimate our dan players.


#120

So let’s try again, I’ve made very sure there’s no information about the players in the sgf file this time.

This game is correspondence, so both players had ample time to play. Let’s hope they did so. Japanese rules, 6.5 komi. White wins with 2.5, although I think it should have been 1.5 on closer inspection.


https://online-go.com/api/v1/games/14012029/sgf