hi. which one will give best result:
Play vs human, review with AI
Play vs AI, review with AI
Cheating (using AI to show the best move) when playing vs AI
hi. which one will give best result:
You assume that there exists a universal clear-cut method to improve superfast. But I think there are no shortcuts to learning go.
A few people improve superfast, but I think they would with just about any method (it’s called talent).
It depends on you and on your level which one will give you the best result.
If you’re an absolute beginner, just playing a lot gives you the best result without doubt.
If you’re a DDK, I think a stronger human teacher reviewing your games will be more helpful than AI.
If you’re SDK, probably you’re strong enough to figure out why AI thinks certain moves are bad, but still many ‘mistakes’ are difficult to recognise, since AI might prefer complicated positions to easy solutions.
And cheating is not allowed on this site, so please don’t do it. But I’m also not sure how it would help you improve more than observing professional games would. If you wish to watch AI play, why not review pro games with AI suggesting alternatives? That seems a lot better.
And as gennan says, there is no shortcut to learning any skill, so neither of these will probably be superfast.
how can you hope to improve by cheating? It’s your brain which has to produce the moves.
AI is a very hard teacher to understand but you can try.
For quickness and efficiency, the usual recommendation is to solve go problems.
I agree with you. Solve more go problems is recommended
I would recommend to read this post written by a pro.
Hope this helps you to find your way.
I have to disagree on what is being portrayed as “cheating” here. Here are a few things that (as far as I know) are acceptable:
Playing unranked games against bots using whatever means at your disposal. Bots don’t care, and I have used them to even test bugs many a time.
Playing unranked games against any opponent under whatever conditions you both agree on (which might include the use of AI).
Using AI to help you in games (even ranked games). This has been done since the beginning of OGS. To whit, if you do so, you should do so consistently, with the same AI, in all games. I would consider it good form to also state so in your profile. These used to be referred to as “cyborg accounts”. However, take note that those accounts existed with that sole purpose, and they weren’t always allowed on all tournaments.
Creating a secondary account to play with the help of AI (as long as you follow the same caveats as on the previous bullet).
EDIT: None of this is allowed now, and must be understood to belong to a past statu quo. Other than that, I keep the integrity of this post.
Now, I know that the last two might seem the most controversial, but they don’t harm the integrity of the rating system. In fact, the rating would already reflect the “extra help” (I think it’s best to consider such accounts as a team of two instead of one cheating player). There are also legitimate reasons to do such a thing.
What would not acceptable, then?
To atypically summon the help of AI for a specific ranked game.
To ask other players for help in a ranked game.
Finding a bug on one of the bots, and exploiting it to inflate your rank.
Not accepting that you’re losing a game, and so trying to use LeelaZero to show you the best moves in the hopes of a comeback.
At least in my opinion.
Someone can play with AI assistance for sure to improve and learning, even against a human. The point is: Is your opponent aware that you are using AI during a rated game? This is the crucial question.
I personally prefer to avoid any AI influence during a game because it seems not fair to me.
I don’t know how widespread is this practice on OGS and if my opponents use AI during our games, but if I should know that someone is using it during a rated game, probably I do not play anymore with this player.
It should be declared clearly in the invitation so that the opponent can decide to play or not.
I would consider it a must to state in the game in the first move if you are using an AI or not. Another major problem would be that since it’s inconvenient to state both on the profile and in games, this would likely get ignored. (I mean, lots of players don’t even say hi before the game starts, doubt anyone will say that they are using an AI to play, especially ranked)
As for improving super fast with AI, it really only helps for the simple parts and mistakes in your game where you can feel the game is starting to deteriorate or get better. Once you get to the parts that involve 10+ move variations, you’ll won’t improve at all if you don’t understand the moves it gives.
To wrap it up, just play against a human and ask a stronger player. Studying AIs won’t magically turn you into an AI or a pro player.
This is absolutely and explicitly not allowed at OGS, not even in unranked games, and not against the AI here.
(There have been discussions about whether it could be allowed vs AI here, but currently that discussion has not concluded with “yes”. So it is not allowed.)
As Eugene said, OGS doesn’t allow the use of AI during a game.
I do agree and expect the respect of the OGS rules by OGS players. I don’t know if they break the rules, I hope not and it would be nice if you state that it’s common practice you give a bit more information on that. In all my games I never got someone telling me he’s using AI.
I never meant that it was common practice, I said it has been done (also, you can deduce that I implied it was allowed). I did not provide any evidence of that because I did not want any particular user to be maligned out of context. As I remember it, at least some bot developers used to do that (which I would cite as “legitimate reason”); mind you, I don’t think any of those bots were ever over 1d.
However, it seems that policy has changed on that regard since I last checked (possibly a long time ago). If none of that is allowed now, then none of that is allowed now, nor would I encourage it. So let me make a slight amendment.
I did read carefully your post and how you could feel legit some kind of use of the AI but in my opinion, OGS did the right choice to simply exclude all as a policy.
At least it makes it easy to understand.
Playing with AI (assistance) is allowed if you ask any moderator to flag your account as a bot account, though, which are completely free, no strings attached, the perfect solution for an aspiring cyborg.
That’s an excellent clarification, which I wasn’t properly aware of.