I thought white was dead since I had 2 eyes on the upper hand and then ai point system decided that I lost 🤔

All in the title, I am not saying I was winning or anything but on the upper top right I had 2 eyes and still that area is not counted. What is going on?

1 Like

It’s not counted because it’s not yet decided. White or black can change the status there.

1 Like

How though? It seems that with this tactic you can just keep poking if the opponent passes to win

No . Check it. The first who play there can change the result in his favor.
For white it’s pretty obvious. Make atari
But what about black?

1 Like

Ok here is the black solution.

black play a stone inside white stones. Now white can no more make atari. Black stones become alive, it’s a seki (no one can take no one)

In images

White solution

white plays A and black cannot avoid to be captured.He has only one liberty now at B left, while white has two.

It’s a full white territory with dead black stones

Black solution

black play a stone inside white. Now white can no more make atari (reduce black to 1 liberty) like before. Note that works for both possible moves inside and that if white now captures the black stone it doesn’t change anything. White can still no more approach at A like in the solution for white shown before or it’s black who captures him with B

So this becomes a seki, a position where no one wants to play. All the stones stay alive (black and white) and there is no point for anyone

Black is very happy, he saved 10 stones from their death.

About the auto score: it cannot determine which solution will be. The game is not finished yet and the area stay unmarked.

6 Likes

Techically, if black plays inside on S19 or T19, white still wants to play there to capture that stone for one point. The outcome is still seki, but the captured black stone would count as a real point under japanese rules ^^

But yeah, the position was still unsettled. If white plays there first, black is dead. If black plays there first, its seki and both are alive.

If black wants to keep the corner unconditionally alive, answering the move 252 (S18) by playing T18 is a must.

2 Likes

To be exhaustive on the subject, we should talk about the difference between rules concerning eyes in seki. But honestly I felt it was a bit off topic here, and I put this aside as not being essential yet for the OP in this situation. (The first thing is to ask yourself if you have to put it away from the board by adding a stone or is it already part of your stock of prisoners.)
Let not confuse him with so technical considerations unless asked.

4 Likes

Yes, after you pass, your opponent is allowed to keep playing, if they think there are worthwhile moves left to play. While it is still your responsibility to keep this strategy from succeeding (by answering the moves if necessary), it is also frowned upon to keep playing moves in a clearly finished game and you can report your opponent for doing it after a certain point.

In this specific case I dont see why white kept playing, since white was clearly leading anyway. I can only assume, that white genuinely thought, there was a chance to succeed in the top right.

(It was already explained by previous posters, why the finished position was not counted.)