[Outdated] Improved OGS rank histogram

I’m not doubting the evidence, simply stating my shock at how off my internal compass was on this matter.

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I had a similar thought Kosh

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This is the basis for many people’s complaint that they get “stuck” at 25k for ages - the reality being they dip well down below 25k, but we show 25k the whole time, so it takes a while before they surface again above 25k and see progress.

Which is the point you and Kosh are subsequently making.

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Yeah I knew it was a problem I just didn’t realise how extensive it was…

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Thank you @Eugene for anticipating my follow up question!

And on <25k, in the British youth club “system”, 35k is where you start when you can finish and score a game (9x9 or 13x13) without assistance. Leaving aside trickier/special situations which comes up even more rarely for absolute beginners, it seems a good starting point for getting on the kyu scale.

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“suggested elsewhere” is code for I couldn’t find it!

But now I have. Do you have any idea how many forum posts include the word rank?! :rofl:

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People are more concerned about their rank than the size of their p**is.
Thankfully spammers didn’t notice yet, otherwise we would receive tons of mails saying “enlarge your rank”! :crazy_face:

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I don’t think there is much point in ranks lower than 25k. At the moment, I’ve the impression that if a player recognizes self atari at a regular basis and stops playing them, they move to 24k and above.

Additionally, ranked games are only allowed in a range of ±9 ranks (auto match uses ±3 ranks). To lock weak players in with other players witch don’t recognize the basics of the game doesn’t do any good. They wouldn’t have even a chance to see how the game is played.

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True story. Can confirm. :joy:

Big +1 on this. I was stuck in that 25k pit for a while and it felt really discouraging to not see any change in my rank after multiple wins.

I’d imagine this large number of sub-25k users also is a result of new players joining, playing a few games, saying “I don’t get it”, and moving on to something else.

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On top of this, I have a friend who is well below 25k and it’s pretty hard to watch them get SLAUGHTERED by players supposedly the same rank

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This was true for me as well. It would have been really nice to be able to see some progress. I was stuck there for way too long and it was extremely discouraging.

 

You could get around this by ensuring that anyone below 25K only gets paired with players who are a bare minimum of 25K, or whatever K you feel fits. This would ensure they always play someone more advanced than them.

 

I was really hopeful the large numbers were proof that OGS was flourishing with newcomers. But your interpretation seems much more likely.

:thinking: Is there any way to check the 25K account range against account activity? Maybe check how many of those accounts have played a minimum of 5 games and have been active within the last two to three weeks. That would be a much better representation of what the 25K pool really represents.

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You want the green section of the graph in OP

See my previous comment:

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I imagine the pairing solution is something like having a humble rank floor at 25 or whatever but show real rank down to 25k.
This way players in the range 35-25 could be paired with anyone from 35 to floor+9 but would be able to see if their opponent is 33k or 25k while also being able to their own progress.
It strikes me that new players often think (and really want to believe) that they are actually 25k if that’s what they are labelled as so the reality that they are maybe 10 ranks lower is tough to accept.

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How does this graph show me how many of those accounts have played a minimum of 5 games and have been active within the last two to three weeks?

 

I understand the slaughtering aspect, but Flovo feared nobody would ever improve if new players didn’t have a chance to see someone playing the game correctly. Slaughter or not, they would learn. 35k vs 35k would learn at a much slower pace. Part of the birthright of becoming a Go player is the steep “learning” curve. And by learning I of course mean “crushed beyond recognition” :scream::sob:

 

I think what new players desire most is to confirm when they are making any shred of progress. The process of learning is difficult and can be emotionally grueling. So having a little confirmation that it is hard but still yielding results, is a big positive.

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Green represents established players, deviation < 100 (according to the legend in the top right of each image)
Since deviation is based on number of games played as well as how recently, it is going to be a fairly good indication that they’ve probably played 5 games in the last few weeks.

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And acceptance of being crushed is a key skill you can use throughout your go playing years…

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That part of your message flew completely over my head previously. Could you explain what exactly Deviation < 100 quantifies?

 

But this graph represents a data pool taken over a six month period. I’m curious about the last two weeks only (which the graph doesn’t gauge at all). Also, I can only see bar length in the graph, for the 50K to 25K range. I know the total value of all green bars equals 14,097 players, but not what portion of that is the player range that I’m interested in.

Agreed. The only thing that gave me hope to cling to was the line in the rank chart creeping ever so slowly toward the 25k mark. Would have been nice to have a number to attach to that. Sure there’s the rating, but that didn’t mean anything to me at the time.

Edit: I’m still not sure that rating means anything to me :sweat_smile:

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:scream: Look everyone!! A unicorn :smirk:

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huh? I care about my rank, but not the actual rating because I don’t really understand it

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