I’m not aware of the existence of such a document in France. But anyway it wouldn’t be enough to protect from pedophiles who haven’t been convicted yet, or from pedophiles who don’t supervise/teach officially but interact unofficially with children from the same club, or playing at the same tournament.
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Only the men please:
If a top professional and/or very influential male Go player is accused of SA, how certain you are the community won’t try to shield him? Hand to heart.
- He will be shielded at any cost, of course
- He may lose a contract or too, until the fuss goes away
- He will be shunned indefinitely, certainly lose his more lucrative contracts
- He will be dead to the community immediately
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voters
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unfortunately, those sorts of accusations tend to have very little presumption of innocence in the eyes of the public
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*a contract or two
But I can’t correct the post because of the poll. Anyway, I guess y’all know what I mean.
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The “of course” of the option I have chosen, feels a bit like I aggree with what I believe would happen.
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The “of course” is my frustration as a woman to what I basically take for granted in these situations.
My take is usually a community will fight tooth and nail to protect their prominent man. Only if they absolutely cannot bury it, something will be done.
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Understood. However, I just wanted to note that this may skew the results a bit, what conflicts with the “hand to heart” instruction.
Still, I aggree with you like the option I have chosen shows.
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In interpreted your poll as: the influential male player has been accused of SA but hasn’t been convicted by Justice, so there is no solid proof (yet?) that the accusations are true. So probably not much will happen, like when top male competitors in sports are accused of SA. He might at most lose a contract or two until the Justice reaches a verdict.
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And even if a verdict is reached and the person is charged as “guilty” this may only be a “bump” in the carrier but not the end of it. Not speaking that all three justice systems of the most probable countries are not top-notch when coming to such issues.
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You think the community will then throw him away?
Because as far as Korea is concerned, Seungri is back and thriving (different industry, same peoples).
I think the community will rally behind him to defend him, before, during and after any trial. Like in all industries.
I don’t think Go is so advanced compared to other communities; OGS is generally OK, but I would bet the women, if I could get significant numbers (which we don’t have), would answer the poll above with a completely different mindset.
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Did you mean this player?
See this: Rape apology sought from baduk champion
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No, I mean the Burning Sun scandal.
As in, the public in Korea didn’t see much issue, forgave very fast and moved past it very fast.
I won’t name any actual pros because it’s not right to name someone even as an example in something like this, but I find it very hard to believe a top Korean professional would be put on a hard spot for allegations like this.
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My memory may mislead me here, but weren’t there some very credible accusations against Wimmer back in the day where he fled the country to avoid charges? And we still sometimes call a Joseki Wimmer Joseki (I want to avoid giving the impression that it is only a “them” problem, even if we don’t have top professional players at the moment)
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Ah OK. Anyway the player I mentioned was banned from KBA in 2020 according to the SL page, and I suppose the reason is the accusation of SA that occurred in 2009. So it took time, but at least he got eventually punished.
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I first thought that maybe it depends on the country but there are few countries that might have prominent go players and I’m not really familiar with them at all. But I suppose they are all likely to be more “traditional” and not in a good way. And the Go community I suppose is broadly traditional too.
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No it won’t. But what can a go association do to eliminate any risk of sexual abuse of a minor in a go-related setting? Hire a small army of private detectives to investigate anyone who children might encounter in some go-related setting?
I’ve been running a children’s go club for more than 12 years, also I’m a man so I’m almost automatically a bit suspect (which I’m acutely aware of). So I take all precautions I can, to avoid any situation where I may end up alone with a child for more than a few seconds, and I also don’t touch them ever.
Sofar there has been no case of someone accusing me of doing anything wrong to a child.
I don’t think “the community” is a monolithic entity. Different people will take different actions. Personally I think I would probably shun to a large degree until the investigation is over. When they are convicted, I’d shun indefinitely.
A while ago I talked about some Dutch celebrities who were accused of SA. Those artists saw a big drop in contracts. They were also shunned by most of the public (although some hard-core fans are probably convinced of their innocence).
These investigations take years and these artists will probably never recover to their previous status, even when they’re eventually acquitted for lack of evidence or so.
Though it may be quite different in other countries, like Korea or Japan.
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I completely and obviously agree to try to reach social and economic equality between sex.
About children in club, it has been a complex matter to offer a safe environment for children, while having adults in their free time. I "enjoyed meeting with 1 or 2 players no smokers in a “house for youth” on Saturday afternoon but usually it’s hard to get more, and the active meeting were the ones on a bar. That’s a difficult task to promote for a club organizer.
About the integration of women in the go amateur world, and especially when reading that older generation were ignorant I feel very strange and wrong all this fuss in my very own point of view.
What I mean is there were a nice place in which women got the same consideration and respect as men it was these go meeting, be tournaments, training camp or clubs. A kind of paradise in my eyes out of the stupid world.
I’m not exaggerating so maybe I was blind (but I doubt as I have always been quite sensitive on this) maybe things differ from place to place (but the community of a go training is usually made of participants coming from different places) or maybe things worsens since then, as I am no more so active in the western go amateur world. But anyway I am shocked when we put those older generation as ignorant, when I lived in a kind of almost perfect world.
Anyway my feeling.
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I haven’t thought in depth about the question, and there are no easy answers, that’s why the committee was created… A few ideas:
- Don’t allow 1-1 interactions between an adult and a child
- spread information to club and tournament managers, and tell them to inform the committee as soon as they notice something suspicious
- If an adult player has an inappropriate behavior, ban him from clubs and from the association, and communicate to club managers the list of banned players.
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I am younger so obviously I don’t know how it was back in the day. I only speak from experience. One data point is Wimmer, another more recent one the article in the German Go Magazine that found it appropriate to publish a “satirical” text that was very impolite to female players. In addition, also Go tournaments sometimes really stressful, because some players find it appropriate without the organizers interfering, talking down to me or commenting on ticks.
However, I also want to emphasize that it is not a problem of individuals. Actually most Go players I meet and met are very nice. The problem is not the majority who is nice but the few bad apples that are tolerated because some strange notion of “they are like they are, nothing can be done about it” or “we can’t attack one of us because we are already so small”. And in my experience this is just not true. One example may be the Anime-Convention community. I had to find out that one of my childhood stars from such conventions was most probably a … guy who constantly looked for sex (liability avoided, yes). For all it many failures, I noticed that in recent years they became more resolute against, e.g., up-skirters and having somebody to talk to on-side if something inappropriate does happen. And I think this improved the situation a bit. Does it solute everything? No and I think we shouldn’t make the mistake to blame an individual for the systemic problems in and of itself, but trying to tackle them is admirable, nevertheless, imho.
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I’m not saying that everyone from the older generation is ignorant, I’m saying that they are less aware than the younger generation. To illustrate this, last september my children told me they had to listen to a conference about VSS in their school/university. I frowned and asked “what is VSS?”. They explained it was “violences sexistes et sexuelles”.
So every student nowadays knows in detail about VSS, whereas I had never heard the expression or the acronym.
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