Lack of resources problem

Hi OGS, I’ve got a five-step problem.

  1. I want to carry on making some early 3-3 invasions because I often like the available results and they’re an important part of a modern opening.

  2. When I invade the 3-3, Black can force this diagram:


  1. If I play A, Black can force the following two diagrams:



When I invade at 3-3 against stronger players, they often push me into this result which is supposedly even; but I usually feel that I ended up with the worse result (not much territory, gote / weak group) especially if there are relevant global considerations.

  1. Therefore I need to play B in the first diagram, and we will end up with this complex position:


  1. There don’t seem to be many resources for studying how to play in the above diagram. I don’t think Waltheri has uploaded a single new game since 2018, and not a lot in '18 either (or so it appears.) Josekipedia / Eidogo are well intentioned but, when you get down to it, are based on amateur opinion and are pretty clunky as well. Is the OGS Joseki Dictionary the best place to study this? Or are there better resources?

This comment is a big IIRC, but I am pretty sure Dwyrin commented briefly on both of these variations in a recent video, probably something in the last couple months and more likely in his Murder Mondays series. As I recall he said A is the most complicated 3-3 variation because it has so many lines, and that B is an adequate alternative.


I used parts, but probably not all, of this resource for OJE.

I hadn’t really touched up on that pattern until yesterday but it should be pretty useful now. I did fill out some gaps that existed.

Edit: A game tree for you. Ignore the dates, Kombilo/Drago don’t actually support SGF from 2020 so I changed the dates for some recent files 2007=2019 and 2008=2020.


If you’re interested in books, Kiseido just published a book of opening and middle game problems with an appendix supposedly full of discussion on this topic. I haven’t read it myself, so I couldn’t tell you if it has exactly what you’re looking for or not.


I did get that book and it’s fairly good. I probably haven’t gone through all of it yet, but some of the variations from it are on the joseki explorer. There’s lots of examples of the joseki in the context of games and pro games though that don’t quite fit into the explorer.

I’ll have another look through though when I’ve a bit of time and see if I can add things that are missing from it

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I think it is the other way around. B, which bugcat wants to play, is the most complicated variation called “flying knife” or “botkiller joseki” or “3-3 push and cut”. It is deemed the next avalanche and requires tremendous reading and study
Newtosenthe recently made lots of videos about 3-3 josekis and despite making a series about the subject, he omits this one cuz he deems it pointless due to its overtly complicated and dynamic nature:
Gopro Yeonwoo talking about that variation:
I see it often in Vegmandu’s games :
One example:
Here is another dan game from ogs with “flying knife” in it:


Yeonwoo’s video was already linked.

There’s some small discussion of 3-3 invasions in this recent Michael Redmond video.

Also a video by Ryan Li that could be useful:

and a follow up video:

and another:


I’ve started adding the complicated versions from that book to OJE, firstly the ones mentioned without the 5-6 exchange in point 4 of the OP.

I’ve added this first since it’s a separate section of the book and some variations involve capturing races in the corner.


Fantastic group effort, everyone. :slight_smile:


Apparently Michael Redmond has a new channel and it made me think of this post

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