Make "analysis disabled" the default (poll) - COMING SOON!

This thread with todays lengthy conversion on chat has made me understand that there some players who do not join ogs ladders because they do not wish their opponent using the analysis tools, which are enabled on default. I don’t know how many of those players exists, but since the number seems to be higher than 2, i suppose it’s worth fixing for them.

I propose we allow group admins to change the settings of ladders for their groups.

This would not only solve the problem of having no ladders with analysis disabled, but many more groups might want to take advantage of this. I can see “fast correspondence” group wanting to have quicker time settings, many kyu groups wanting handicaps, chinese groups wanting chinese rules etc.

This would also give more meaning for all group ladders, because currently the only thing that differentiates those ladders from the sitewide ones is the smaller playerpool. Quick look at the random sample of group ladders reveals that those are indeed pretty quiet places, not many users of those groups even join the ladders at the first place, and even fewer of them challenges anyone else. If those ladders had something specific to them, maybe they would see more activity and serve more purpose for having group ladders at the first place.

Combined with showing group ladders in main ladder page this propose would/could increase activity of those ladders a lot.

Of course group admin changing the ladder settings shouldn’t affect the currently ongoing games, but take effect only for new games. And the settings for group ladders should be somewhere visible, so that everyone knows what they are getting into before joining those ladders (current users in those ladders just have to bear with it)

Does anyone come up with any negatives of this proposal, or does everyone think its a great idea?
Should i make a new topic or github request of this?

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Bespoke group ladder rules is a great idea. And previously requested more than once as I recall.

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I’m curious about this argument: why do you care if a person is using a bot to help them, then? That too is reflected in their rank…

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He didn’t mention bots at all though. Bots are vastly different from analysis mode. One requires you to put effort in and the only advantage it gives is that you can read deeper (apparently it has also caused some games to be lost by its use as the coutndown timer doesn’t notify the player). The other does literally everything for you and requires zero effort.

Plus, OGS has score estimator, which is kind of a double-standard when it comes to bot-based aid in a game. The score estimator tells people what is “solid” and what can be invaded, even if they don’t know how to invade, they can try. Second, it tells people to resign when they really shouldn’t because it’s absolute garbage at its job. There have been many instances of peopel resigning won games because they rely on the score estimator. The score estimator is bot assistance, plain and simple.

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unless they only use it every other game to stay on a specific rank for whatever reason.

both are external tools that improve the skill level. the only difference is efficiency.

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Haha.
www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/exc8if/
I think @_KoBa almost killed the discussion here with his reasonableness.

Fitting quote:

This applies to analysis, as well…

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Yeah - this will become more obvious when a better one becomes available thanks precisely to bot analysis. I’m hoping it will be turned off at that point :slight_smile:

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Analysis mode is internal to OGS. OGS made the choice to implement it.

Bots automatically do all of the analysis, reading and judging for you. Analysis mode does not.

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Analysis mode actually gives you the opportunity to put MORE thought into your move by helping to organise YOUR thoughts. It is simply a different way to play consistent with correspondence tradition.

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OGS by itself is an external tool. a game is played in the minds of 2 players, the board is only an external tool to communicate moves.

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At my kitchen table where my tablet resides in the evening, I have a mini swiss army knife on the table too.

In games where analysis is disabled I will sometimes withdraw the plastic toothpick from the knife and use it on the screen pointing to stone positions to help me read through.

Sometimes if I’m desperate, I will get a piece of paper, draw a grid, draw the stone positions and work through possible positions…

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This idea is great and has been brought up many times in the past.

Besides the option of enabling analysis, I think the ability to customize time settings is also a big game changer. For everyone that cares about inclusiveness, enabling groups to set up both slower and faster ladders would really help more people participate in ladders.

I’m surprised that there does not seem to already be an open GitHub issue requesting this feature, so I went ahead and opened a GitHub issue:

And made another topic to discuss it here:

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I think Kaworu_Nagisa summed it up perfectly with:

I’m fine with analysis, since it’s a tool provided by OGS and both players have access to it. While both players technically could have access to a bot as well, they are against the rules and ethical players will not use them during a game.

I initially voted to keep analysis enabled, but I guess my true response should be that I don’t care about the default, since it really makes no difference to me.

Edit: I have modified my vote to reflect this.

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I vote we do away with ogs so and just keep the chat part and the forums. Everything else is assistance (cheating).

But a real question though, if analysis is disabled can you still do malkovich mode in correspondence. The idea of sharing variations in malkovich (although I’ve only done it maybe less than 5 times?) is kind of cool. Even if it’s just for yourself to try remember what you were thinking at the time.

If disabled by default, if you are setting up the game you could just reenable analysis for it. Just wondering if other people use that feature much?

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Short answer is ‘no’. If analysis is ‘off’ then anything that allows player to look at variations in the game is ‘off’ too. ie. Conditional moves and chat variations.

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When someone says “short answer” that implies there is also a longer answer, which I’m guessing is some sort of loophole in this case? Can spectators still use the analysis tool if analysis is disabled?

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Yes, they are not part of the game.

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I totally agree with you. I would like to add that we should also have the right to impose (if not, he can refuse the game of course) to the opponent the deactivation of the analysis when we want to play a game without analysis.

52% of voting people in Britain’s largest referendum is a “vocal minority” now? I don’t want to get political but don’t be so weasel-worded. Funny how hard Europhiles often seem to have equal measures of delusion and disdain…

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