OGS Study Group - Board 5


#37

My take.


Next board will be an older game. Others are welcome to post boards, too, so long as some time has gone by and there’s been sufficient engagement with the current board.


#38

Thanks @mark5000 ! I think we had a nice study group here and I enjoyed reading others’ analysis.

Feedback

I added a variation to your comments.

Personally I thought P10 was a natural shape move to consider, even if not a first choice. I actually considered the game sequence but it didn’t make sense before settling the lower right corner.

I am really worried about the fate of the lower left. My take is that it is the new spirit, and at this point white is willing to sacrifice all 4 stones if needed.
My E3 was a bad choice anyway, as we now know F2 is the proper local move.


#39

Board 4 is up. Please have a look at this classic game and share your analysis. Also note that komi is 5.5, in case that affects your analysis.


#40

Thanks, I almost missed that :wink:

Thoughts

I can’t think about anything else than G11. Really. Other moves around C15, Q8 or S4 look big but not as urgent.


#41
Summary

The timing doesn’t feel right for directly going after the two stones in the middle. I think I want to build the side in a way which applies light pressure to them, and ask white what their next move is. If white responds by strengthening the two stones, I can take another big move somewhere else. If white responds by trying to reduce the outside/tenuki, I can build thickness elsewhere and then come back and attack the two stones, later.

https://online-go.com/review/364983


#42

My analysis


#43
Question on your analysis:

Assuming that tenuki would be unreasonable for white after E13, (is it?), why doesn’t black tenuki after white responds? Regardless of white’s move, there isn’t much in terms of territorial potential for white in the center. Making the side big with something like G3 seems like it puts white in the awkward position of deciding if/how to reduce black without seriously hurting the light stones in the center.


#44
@ckersch88

This is certainly a possibility. But then if you don’t plan to pressure white, maybe E13 is not not so urgent either and we’re back to @mark5000 's analysis.

I’ll take this opportunity to mention that I really liked your move at D10 when I read your analysis. Leela Zero gives it a very good score (still below G3).


#45

Here’s my analysis of Board 4 (I am mid-SDK.) I think I got preoccupied with White’s moves instead of Black’s (and with writing explanatory comments,) and I found the 30 min time control a bit difficult. But I came up with a few main ideas:

Summary
  1. I initially thought that G11 was too close to play to the centre group, failing to take profit elsewhere, but it stood up well to my brief analysis.

  2. The cap at K5 really caught my eye. I liked the concept of pressuring White from afar in order to greatly increase the zone of attack. All in all, this is the move I’d play.

  3. The calmest idea I found for Black was the shimari at C6. It still attacks the centre group but doesn’t make any ostentation about it, simply developing Black’s position.

On the other side of the coin, a move I liked for White was P14, which sneaks into Black’s top-centre moyo and offers to perhaps sacrifice the centre group whilst strolling in from one or more safe groups on the outside.

When I was analysing, I was reminded of a passage of advice attributed to Honinbo Jowa which sometimes taps me on the shoulder. In it (amongst other things) he criticises running with groups, making statements like “running groups away will make you cowardly” and “if you have invaded too deeply, you must sacrifice your stones.” So I wondered how sound an idea that would be for White and how (as Black) I would go about playing against it.


#46

By the way, great idea, Mark.


#47

here is my take on this fascinating position :smiley:


#48

o/ @bugcat. Nice to see you here. I know you like older games like this.


#49

This ain’t old, I spent the last hour analysing a game from 1866 :wink:


#50

Board 5 is up. This game is from 1969.


It was nice to have large participation (6 users) on the last board.


#51

Shuko to move! I bet no-one will find his move.
So exciting… Hope I ll have time to participate tomorrow still coming back and have other things first to do :frowning:


#52

3 reviews posted so far…


#53

this is a quick one, 10 minutes spent.


#54

https://online-go.com/review/367251

12mn


#55
Summary

I found two moves for White that looked credible to me. The first one was the obvious jump-out H5. The variations I analysed focused on White attacking Black from above, building a wall in sente by allowing Black to escape, and then returning to pressure Black’s top left group with F13 and aiming to dominate the centre.

My other choice (and the one I’d play in the game,) was to play F13 immediately. I expect Black to respond with C12, and then White can either shoulderhit the 3-3 at Q16 to take influence and build a moyo on the top side, or jump out to H5 and start the attack, again looking to build influence. Probably exchanging F13 for C12 and then immediately jumping to H5 would be strongest for White, and only playing Q16 when its value is more clear.


#56

Here’s an interesting board position from the latest Shin Jinseo showpiece:

Also: the king is dead! Long live the king! Nobody actually died, but Shin Jinseo, age 18, is now the #1 rated player in the world, and highest rated player in history, according to Rémi Coulom’s computations at goratings.org.