Should there be a separate thread to discuss the clarity/fairness of the poll, mutual exclusivity of the options and weighting to be given to each?
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That’s the point. It’s strong AI so you can know that the counting is right (even if you don’t know exactly what is being counted and how).
Clicking on the estimate score button makes a query to a server, so that information could be logged.
However, my point is rhetorical. If using a tool in a particular way could be considered cheating, then why make it available? And if there is a particular line, then it should be clarified.
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This is the equivalent of cheating, therefore, permanently disabled for rank. Rest is free game.
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Same goes for analysis in ranked games. Still can’t believe it is possible.
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One option is to make a button “request counting”. If one player presses it, the other player is asked to accept or not, and if he agrees, the score is shown to both players.
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I use the estimator as a replacement for my own counting, which is certainly not “strong”, so for me it would often be very mysteriously wrong and therefore unusable.
Sorry, I see the good intentions, but I don’t like this at all. Having a score estimator with this quality available during a game totally changes the game and is basically cheating from my perspective. I was entirely happy with the old one (with the exception of how hard it was to manually change group statuses in there) - you’d got a rough guess without tedious counting but needed to apply some common (go-) sense and couldn’t rely on group statuses.
If we now end up with having this new one, but I have to switch it off if I want what I see as a non-cheating game, I have lost access to a super useful tool that was actually one of the main reasons I switched to this server.
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Exactly! Would we ever have an option to get an AI hint for the next move? I doubt it! As noted by others, accurate score estimator plus analysis can be used to effectively access that information. Of course, people can still cheat by downloading the SGF and running it through AI but that’s a lot of effort. If analysis and score estimator are right there in front of you on the screen, then it makes it too easy to cheat so some might not be able to resist the temptation…
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my opinion is, if game is ranked, analysis cannot be enabled also score estimation.
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Indeed but now it will be able to tell you that either you are way behind and should maybe resign or that it’s close or that you are ahead and can play safe. In the last case at least working out what is safe and where exactly a move would be useful is up to you but if you can see the area of the board that is unsettled then it’s a pretty big help about where you should play.
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Estimator looks super cool, this cannot be denied.
AI would be OP for live players using the (correspondence default) Submit Move function. You can easily test out different moves and play the one with the highest score. This is also an issue on correspondence games, though I feel like the advantage in that case wouldn’t be as big. I feel that once you place a stone on the board in Submit mode, Estimator should never be enabled. Same deal with Analysis(!).
Tournament games should have it disabled for sure, and for ranked games I don’t really care one way or the other.
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Does our ranking system have any respectability left? That is the real question.
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It might be “close” assuming I play the brilliant tesuji that’s obvious only to AI. Instead, I’ll play safely and have a surprising loss.
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basically use of external tools are against OGS policy. Now for correspondence games, there is a bit of nuance as joseki database are allowed. So the thing is to see if a score estimator would join these exception, according to the will of the players (and the ability to manage/enforce it)
one has to be careful that in itself it seems to me much more difficult to determine if someone used a SE as let say an AI.
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I think in general Foxy is not as concerned about serious competition because its player base has access to as much serious, irl games as they could want. OGS occupies a slightly different niche in the Go ecosystem.
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When it is on, players can play a move and immediately request undo when they see the score drop significantly. So I expect a large increase of undo requests.
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This is still too big of a help IMO 
Score estimator influencing how you play (safe or risky). Players should work this out for themselves.
If you’re concerned about games dragging on when your opponent should resign, maybe we could use the score estimator as a back end to a “should I resign?” button 
If you are more than X points behind, it just says “Yes, you should resign now!” 
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currently, most voted “should be an option, but default to disabled”, like me, but that prevents me from voting “only the score should be visible when the game is in progress” as well.
those are complementary and I feel that many would like to answer to that too.
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