Question about bots

I happened upon this game

First of all, WOW.
Second of all, COOL.
Also, :heart_eyes::heart_eyes::heart_eyes:

I can’t find a library of bots or a list of them with characteristics and stuff, is there a bot with that variation-per-move thingy for TPK?

(inb4, it’s probably a bad idea for TPK to play with bots/ learn from their habits/ I can’t read variations/ AI is beyond my rank, but
it seems so FUN).

It’s not that special.

The bot playing is a version of Leela (so not the stronger LeelaZero) [EDIT: I didn’t read carefully enough, turns out that the name is misleading, and that the engine actually is LeelaZero afterall] and additionally handicapped at a fast playing speed. Ladders are the archetype of techniques that bots struggle with: locally they are easy enough to read out that even a 20k can see how a ladder will end, but since Leela does not read like a human, it has to do a lot of computation to get the game tree to move past the point where the ladder becomes resolved.

With a low number of playouts, even LeelaZero will make ladder mistakes, just like a human would if they don’t read out the ladder.

As for playing bots, I would advice not to play bots of a similar level to yours, but to play bots at least a few stones stronger. That way you don’t fall for the bad habits that weak bots have as quickly.

However, playing bots is a good way to play games in which you can experiment, and you’re not burdened with the social aspect of playing against humans (so: you can resign whenever you like, begin the game with a weird starting position, undo and try a different move, etc…)


:sweat_smile::sweat_smile::sweat_smile: My exclamations weren’t even about the ladder, I’m not that good!

I’m especially interested in that variation-per-move thingy, but I guess only strong bots can do it?

Nah, that’s just the bot putting the “most optimal” move sequence it has computed in the chat. You can see how it gets confused about the ladder, changing tactic move by move.


As OGS supporter, you get the variation per move thingy for each of your games as “AI review” (No special bot opponents needed)


Yep, but I can’t read the AI review (don’t make me say it out loud in the forums :cold_sweat::cold_sweat::cold_sweat:). There have been so many nice people trying to get it into my scull but I don’t get it. I always get confused “where the :heart::heart::heart::heart: is the next move?”.

The in-the-chat thingy seems easier. Maybe it won’t be, but I’ll be ashamed to say so, so that’s the last of me asking (:stuck_out_tongue:)

If you’re looking for a bot that will show you variations-per-move try this desktop version of Leela

To be clear, this is not Leela Zero (which taught itself to play go in a tabula-rasa manner) this is the 4 dan one that was trained on human games. In this sense, it is somewhat similar to the website, in that in shows you what moves are more common among high-level human players

It’s much easier to install than most of the other high-level AI programs out there (i.e. Lizzie, AG et al). Once you’ve got it loaded up, hit

FILE > NEW GAME - then pick your Board Size and Engine Max Level (the higher the number, the more variations Leela uses for look-ahead, and the longer it will take to find the next best move)

Once new board opens, hit TOOLS > SHOW NETWORK PROBABILITIES and it will display a heatmap of the statistical likelihood of humans playing on those spots given that board position.

It’s fun to use as a learning tool, but - the problem is - it’ll keep giving you 4 dan level advice and strategy, which will take a long time to understand.

Good luck


Thanks, I’ll try it!

Anotther one is lizzie, which does have LeelaZero as well as a nicer interface.

Just a word of warning: Leela Zero is very good at showing you where you made mistakes, but not very good at suggesting simple alternative moves, so use with care.


I’ll accept humbly. :slightly_smiling_face:

Right - but the variation per move thingy comes with it :slight_smile:


I’ll have to learn it at some point, I know.