Terms and Conditions Clarification

General Go Discussion
22

Mostly I love the OGS community.

Reading this thread is not one of those times :frowning:

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23

Stop assuming intent! #resist #raisedfist #thisiswhatafeministlookslike

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24

Not sure if you’re calling smurph a feminist, or yourself :thinking:

25

I don’t know what any of the hashtags mean. I just want to be cool. #insertcleverthinghere

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26

#iinternetandstuffgood

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27

#sickburn

28

Well since this thread quickly turned into nitpicking…

  • Solicit or advertise for any competing Go services

But advertising EGF or AGA tournaments and congresses, OSR league, or relying games from pandanet is ok? Which go services are competing with ogs, and which are ok to solicit or advertise?

You can NEVER use Go programs (Leela, Zen, etc.) or neural networks to analyze current ongoing games unless specifically permitted (e.g., a computer tournament). The only type of computer assistance allowed is games databases for opening lines and joseki databases for corner patterns in correspondence Go. You cannot receive ANY outside assistance on live or blitz Go games.

So kibitzing someones else ongoing game and posting AI winrates on spectator chat is also prohibited? Or should it be specified that this only applies if the person analysing is also playing that game?

You agree to indemnify and hold Online-Go.com its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, agents, employees, partners and licensors harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable attorneys’ fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of Content you submit, post, transmit or otherwise make available through the Service, your use of the Service, your connection to the Service, your violation of the ToS, or your violation of any rights of another.

How about UNreasonable attorney fees?

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29

In the past, the rules were often stated in a short sentence or two, something like “be nice and observe standard netiquette”. The interpretation and enforcement was completely in the hands of moderators.

Nowadays, it is more common to have a huge list of vague forbidden things which can be interpreted to apply to anyone, but are only enforced when the situation calls for it.

I am not sure which way is better.

30

Read B.F. Skinner’s articles on operant conditioning and you’ll find the answer.

Or his essay ‘Freedom and the Control of Men’.

32

Players can’t see the spectator’s comments until the end of the game. So posting winrates isn’t helping players.

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33

Yea it’s not helping the players who are playing the game, but it’s still prohibited on ToS. Thus the nitpicking >___>

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34

It seems rather surprising that someone would want to present watertight and “clarified” terms and conditions, but act disappointed or even annoyed at the sight of a discussion about the details.

35

Thanks for bringing these up. Firstly, the AGA, EGF, OSR, and outside relays are not competing Go services. A competing service seeks to acquire users from OGS to use its own services instead.

Secondly, we can probably add the word “your” before the word “games” to fix this issue. The context shows the intent, though. The clause is under the heading No Cheating or Computer Help, and the remainder is about AI assistance. So “you” means you (the player) and “games” means (your) games.

Thirdly, you’re absolutely not liable for unreasonable attorneys’ fees. We can’t spend millions of dollars on a team of lawyers and expect you to pay the entire bill.

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36

I don’t know man, it’s too relative. In the world of large corporations, this could still be considered reasonable. xD

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37

The clarification I presented was about whether or not you are allowed to cheat or harass people.

I thought this was quite clear.

The clarification is also quite clear in the Short Version:

Don’t cheat or harass people.

This wasn’t intended as an invitation to nitpick the rest of the whole of the Ts&Cs.

But of course you are free entertain yourselves with it as you see fit.

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38

It would seem to me that improving community interaction on a site doesn’t involve getting attached to the letter of the T&C, but getting attached to the people who make up that community.

Putting a lot of things you don’t want to see in a text doesn’t lead to better behavior. Fostering a culture of behavior you do want to see, does. Leading by example.

39

And on that note, OGS is the best online community I’ve ever seen.

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