The all-in-one democratic game

Oh, no, not at all. Instead of Q10 in your suggested sequence, we’d play tighter at Q8. Or, since side extensions are considered less valuable these days, I’d bet we could even tenuki to O15 safely and gamble sente to finish at Q8. If we get a good enough result we could even finish at O4, and we’d have conserved a move in the process. It’d be one thing if Black could attack the upper right white group, but White always has S16, so any attack would instantly fizzle.

All that to say, I do feel that the usual S14 and R14 would be a bit stronger here.

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Wouldn’t S14 encourage w to take the side external stone in shicho ?

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Believe it or not, I had to look up the meaning of shicho! I’m certain I heard it before, but most teachers and players I met used the term “ladder,” and the Japanese term left my memory. Thanks for the vocab.

And if you mean R14, then yeah, White could ladder the external stone. I still fancy that result more than anything after Q17, but the shicho is why I like S14 most.

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O my bad yes I meant R14

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I tend to pick & choose English or Japanese terms for brevity.

I’m as surprised to hear large knight’s move for ogeima as I am wariuchi for wedge.

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First time we have to vote again (with 2 choices only)

Black to play

  • Q17
  • S14

0 voters

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draw…

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Don’t let my vote slow the game down. I was going to abstain after I saw the results, but it turns out that you can’t remove your vote from a poll, only change it to a different option.

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I haven’t been cultivating a good understanding of poll mechanics in the other thread, but it seems to me that the clamp at R17 is the only reasonable move for White now, so we should speed its progress using whatever method has been decided on.

Everything up to https://online-go.com/joseki/15570 seems uncontroversial. I think there’s a debate to be had over whether or not we want to finish the joseki in the way suggested, though.

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No worry, it’s a normal poll, 24hrs. This time a new majority is born but that was just unpredictable.

Democracy is a strange thing.
on the first round 40% and 40%
on the second almost 0% and almost 100%

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Is there a possibility that after Black S14, White R17, Black connects with S16?

On another note, Mark5000 suggested the outside-attachment R15, but I am not convinced that it was a good decision. For that argument I would like to point out that, if play proceeds as suggested i.e. the following sequence:

Unbenannt

… then white ends in gote. I do agree that the result looks good locally, but White played one more move than Black. And since Black’s group became rather secure due to this sequence, subsequently Black can safely tenuki and enclose the lower-right corner, which is the last big corner-move.

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Enclosing the corner looks miai with C10 / C9 if you ask me. It’s just my opinion though.

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and what about R12?
it seems it may block black’s attempt to escape

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If White R12 then Black Q17, and White’s just in a worse Q17 variation.

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White to play!

Anyone can contribute from 40k to 9p and very welcome to join us.

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k10

but I kinda think it would be a bit better for black to play there atm.

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I wasn’t going to ask, but since someone liked the post: what does this actually mean?

What does “conquer entire tengen” mean? This is not really a meaningful sentence.

Playing a Stone at R12 as White invites Black to cut through with Q13 later. If blocking off the center becomes interesting for White, I would rather suggest Q12 locally.

However I don’t think that is the most important direction of play right now. I believe playing in the lower-right corner is the biggest place to play a gote move, but perhaps playing some sente-exchanges starting with R17 first is best.

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based on this, I’d say go q5 or d10 as white.

k10 should still happen first though.