S16 might give us sente where white might tenuki otherwise after S17 Q16 S16.
Also, I’m curious to see if white will answer with the old joseki move P17 or the newer Q17.
1 Like
W will not block at S17 so we go for similar sequence, without playing yose. I like for different reasons to keep yose plays for when it’s time for them.
@Haze_with_a_Z it’s completely fine to have another suggestion, we just don’t know which one, if you want to get some votes…
If it’s the one you told long ago, don’t expect a newcomer to read the whole topic and find it.
I know it won’t get any votes so the newcomer is chill playing whatever they wanna play.
White to play
Suggestions time (Let me doubt we’ll have a lot on this move but who knows…)
Welcome to all well minded weiqi players around, just tell us where you’ll play and stay voting if you wish
2 Likes
Only thing to understand is why Q16 is better as R18.
I mean Q16 Atari waste the ability to sacrifice for lessening black eyes space.
My intuition tells me: R18. Considering long term consequences is beyond my abilities anyway. Sometimes that makes things easier! 
If we were just playing joseki in the explorer for instance, then Q16. It would be nice to understand why Q16 is better than R18 or for instance Q17 which can be a move if black connected at S16.
Without thinking of joseki, I would be wondering about after white Q16 Atari black playing R18 Atari.
The worst move - self atari at S16
Black will have to capture, but then black can ignore white at Q16 and will secure bottom right corner, white may start ko battle, but black will also destroy white at bottom left
White R18 or Q17 also can be ignored
White Q16 can’t be ignored, and then white may attack bottom right. Black’s attack on R17 stone will not be the biggest move
So white Q16 the best
I don’t know if (can’t be ignored)==(the best), which is kind of how you ruled out R18 and Q17.
I still think the counter Atari is interesting by black in response to q16 and should be pointed out why it’s bad for black.
After W Q16, if Black plays R18, White will capture with S16. Then black has to connect on the first line, which is already painful. Let’s assume play continues with White Q18, Black captures with R16, White connects with Q17, resulting in the following position:
Compare this to
It’s Black to play in both diagrams. The difference may seem small, but I would argue that White is more solid in the first diagram (no cutting points whatsoever). It’s unclear if Black gained anything in comparison to the “standard” sequence in the second diagram.
1 Like
24 is the move I couldn’t really see. I guess the point could be, can white just not play 22 in the second diagram, in which case it isn’t black to play in both?
It is possible, but move 22 (R18) is worth points and affects the security of both groups nearby.
1 Like
White earn better yose in the standard sequence
But I like solidity too 
Now is there a big difference on this? There is the aji of the eye stealing tesuji, but it’s quite under control by the coming white extension
1 Like
White to play
- Q16
- R18
- Another choice, please expand.
0 voters
2 Likes
board is needed
4 Likes
Yes you do a wonderful job
1 Like
s16
4 Likes
S16 Really! Why?
1 Like