Are you willing to be explicit on what you mean by this? I think I know, but I don’t know I know.
3 Likes
Yeah i know what the halo effect is, but lost on how Mr. Water has connected it to this thread.
3 Likes
If you wouldn’t mind some feedback then, a good way to train some skills is to practice them in settings where failure does not matter.
Similarly, in OGS when you want to try some new idea in Go, you usually opt to play an unranked game, instead of staking your ranking in order to try a new silly fuseki/joseki/tesuji/whatever.
Therefore:
…you could make the conscious decision to train your people-skills in open source projects like these which are not really your own, other people will check your performance and ideas/suggestions and you will not lose any “ranking” so to speak.
Participating in open source is like getting free training. Choosing to be rude about it seems like an unwise choice.
People skills, soft skills, are also important.
One of those skills is actually important in life in general and it is the re-evaluation of “what does anger or bad manners really solve, anyway?” 
You can see this issue everywhere, from people waiting in line being rude at the cashier, or people being rude at civil servants or people being rude at their relatives or their co-workers. There are very few usecases where anger and rudeness actually improve the situation or improve your chances of actually getting what you want. Yet, somehow, temper tantrums seem to be the general “go to” choice for a lot of people.
Just like clean code is important in a coding project for obvious reasons, that is also true for clean feedback, for equally obvious reasons.
In a professional environment it is a good idea to remain calm and civil at all times.
Granted noone is paying you to provide feedback, but noone asked you to do it either. 
By choosing to provide feedback, you implicitly enter someone else’s professional environment (OGS is a business after all) and you express the wish to conduct business with them, therefore good manners/feedback should be expected, even if “your survival/salary does not depend on it”. It is a good (and free) training for a different setting/job where it might. 
If you ever happen to do debugging or documentation for some job that you are hired, three things are good practice, imho:
a) When possible, provide multiple suggestions/solutions for each issue.
b) Point out the potential reasons on why the previous solution was chosen. This will not only provide clarity to you, but also provide help to the people that will now be called to choose which solution to be implemented.
Debugging is not just about “finding a mistake” or “finding a better way”, but also reverse engineering why was that choice made in the first place, by people that might be looooong gone from the payroll. If you surmise that the choice was made out of ignorance or just bad practice from the previous dev, refrain from pointing it out or being dismissive of the code of your previous/past colleagues. (1) It is a huge red flag in a team environment and if you are keen to throw people under the bus, then that only means that it is open season for you to receive similar treatment when you eventually blunder (everyone makes mistakes). Be gracious, so that other people can return that grace to you, as well.
c) Always be as detailed as possible with the pros and cons of each suggestion. Unless it is clearly within your purview, refrain from openly supporting one solution over the other just because you think it is better (or it might be easier/faster to implement ). If you want to lean towards a solution, you can do it via the documentation of your proposals and by objectively presenting “why that solution is better” to the people that will have to take the responsibility of the choice.
Closing this post, as a matter of “personal philosophy” problems and the potential anger generating from them can be dealt with two obvious choices:
a) The problem can be solved? Great. Then no need to get angry, get to work in solving it.
b) The problem cannot be solved? To bad. Then no need to get angry, continue with your day/work/life.
Anger and rudeness rarely helps in any algorithm.
(1)
There is a wide array of things that you can say to hover lightly over the past mistakes of others:
a) This was standard practice in the past
b) This new piece of code/ability didn’t exist at the time
c) There was no need for that provision to be made back then, so the devs at the time rightfully didn’t want to make the code heavy for a feature that no user needed at that moment
and so forth…
…those can also be standard reasons/excuses for your past mistakes sub-optimal code, by the way.
If you want to be able to use them yourself in the future, then you cannot go around denying their usage for others.
Edit and P.S.
Do note that I do not propose waxing into “toxic positivity”. Point out everything that you find wrong about something, but in a civil/professional manner.
5 Likes
^^ NICE.
I could really do with following this advice more myself
Being rude is also self-indulgent - a luxury usually at the expense of others.
It’s taking an easy path “giving in to feelings” when rationally more restrained behaviour is doubtless more sensible, while inevitably making the world worse for someone.
I’ve come to allow myself this self-indulgence when encountering folk being rude about the development work here. Mostly through a feeling of “darn, if I don’t stick up for us, no-one else will” and “this person doesn’t get to have their self indulgence here unchallenged”.
Wonderfully, this thread was a counter-example - lots of community members helping to steer the rude newcomer productively. It was heartening reading. Maybe I should put away the Rude Hat and leave defence of the community and team to the community and team now 
5 Likes
I personally think that you have an unbelievable level of self-restraint when it comes to rude users.
While I think that there is a point when you have to fight back or take action, overall I really think you and your way of communicating is a large part of the recipe that created this awesome community.
For me you’re kind of a role model in terms of forum communication and I’ve tried to learn from you since our first conversation.
7 Likes
Man, you are kind. I’m glad if some sort of impression is like that.
I definitely am over-rude from time to time. If it’s even not “wildly excessive” that’s a relief 
Thanks for your support.
5 Likes
Somebody has to be the bad cop from time to time..
5 Likes
I tried to force things to go my way, but some things can’t be forced. I learned a lot from these exchanges, everyone did a good job. I made the mistake of blaming the codebase when half my struggle was with Git/GitHub as @CelestialObject pointed out. The DX (developer experience) is what can be improved with more effort on things like documentation and workflow, not the code itself.
I chose to be rude because I was running out of time + patience + also because 15 years of holding hands singing kumbaya clearly didn’t bring the UI to anywhere near the level of Lichess and probably won’t moving forwards either if data continues to be misused to give false confidence in UX decisions. But mainly because I felt disrespected and my ego didn’t like that – I now realize I brought it on myself with excessive bragging about things like my UI and coding skills when I’m kyu level at UI and coding in general.
More importantly, even if OGS never reaches the state I wished for it to reach, that’s okay. It already served its purpose giving me a place to play, study, and discuss Go for 5-6 months and putting food on the table for anoek. Even if it disappears over time, anoek can simply move on to another business or OGS can serve a niche market such as correspondence games. I’ll give up on forcing it to be something it’s not.
1 Like
but if I’m DDK level at UI/UX design, you and “most people here” must be dokhbohm level at it, let’s be honest 
and no amount of positivity is going to change that. In fact, improving my communication skills is not going to improve my chances of launching my own web app even 1%.
This thread inspired me to be more positive and refrain from indulging in flaunting, toxic behaviors for other reasons. This community is very good at what it does, and like the rest of you, I encourage it to stay that way. It won’t ever be good at design-related endeavors or teaching Go due to aforementioned “toxic positivity” resulting in a lot of wrong ideas being passed around as truth, but it’s good for things like introspection, emotional support, and comedy.
And I realized halfway into the thread that I might be excessively hurting anoek by insulting his work indirectly, and that isn’t what I want, so I did some damage control. He doesn’t need to change a thing about OGS if he can’t afford to or doesn’t want to. I only wanted to direct negativity towards my haters/doubters. I apologize for any damage I inflicted on innocent people.
1 Like
Implying that 15 years of rudeness would have produced better results…
I think we just need to understand that resources of the chess community and go communities differ.
To be clear, I do think direct feedback is valuable. But one can be both direct and professional. Unnecessary rudeness can actually detract from clarity.
Besides this quote, I do appreciate your post and that you have acknowledged that there may have been some issue on your side when approaching the codebase. I hope you can enjoy OGS either as a player or a contributor for some time going forward. I do not contribute much myself these days as I have other priorities, but I did find it to be a rewarding and educational activity with a friendly community.
7 Likes
I’ll be around to enjoy the memes and talk trash about 9x9 – I think 9x9 Go is analogous to practicing basketball only 1 vs. 1 or football 1-on-1 in the context of team sports, or arguably even worse. I almost lost to a 9 kyu in 9x9. Might as well have played Connect Four or Checkers.
I can’t afford to be a contributor unfortunately. After giving it a try – and I admit I shouldn’t have acted like a child about things I didn’t enjoy – I realized it’s not for me. Not only is open-source workflow only going to slow me down as I have to ensure all my code is compatible with an alien codebase and more limited tools than I prefer to use, but having to go through a jury on these forums before implementing any change is exhausting for me.
My time and effort is better spent making the best Go-related website and games and pretend OGS doesn’t exist. If I work alone, I don’t need to waste time convincing anyone of anything. This is why I didn’t want to work for a company as a game designer. And also because I don’t want to give my ideas to greedy corporations who end up monetizing them with gambling addiction, making the best content pay-to-access or pay-to-win, sacrificing quality for scale, etc. I wanted to give my ideas to OGS because anoek is humble and runs an ethical business with a great community.
1 Like
(I know this thread had been derailed from the topic, but IDK where else to mention this)
Hi @Sadaharu I have pushed a follow up for the Window title fix earlier sent in by the fellow user. There were some missed routes. I have added E2E test as well.
My changes aren’t deployed yet, but the PR has been merged so it should reflect soon in the Prod.
Let me know if you (or anyone else) runs into an issue with the Window titles in the coming weeks. (Or after that)
cc: @GreenAsJade
12 Likes
You forgot to mention 9x9 is a bit like chess.