2022: HOLD MY TEA! 🍵

That is almost a requirement to run for high office.
Pray tell me, can you get more megalomaniac than “VOTE FOR ME! BECAUSE I AM THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN SAVE THIS COUNTRY!” which is, practically and in essense, all the slogans of an election campaign are all about, even for municipality elections.

It is all a matter of being trained to put on an act and hide (like actors :wink: ) or not.

There are very good reasons why a lot of able - yet timid - people do not seem to run for anything, even for local councilors, and this is one of them: Politics demands that you are an extrovert. To reach the higher level you need to have an extreme amount of “I am great” kind of mentality and to reach the highest? Well, you need an “I am the greatest! The saviour that this country (or this party) needs”.

It is almost mandatory to be like that.
On a funny note here there a leaked “behind the scenes”/out-takes from such a campaign ad, from one of our former Prime minister. I won’t put the link to protect our sanity :stuck_out_tongue:

The numbers going around for a 2-3 day war are already more than 12 years of war and conflicts in Afganistan:

So, the current claims seem highly unlikely.

We have a specific kind of election here where all the parties involved issue their own results and their own spin on how they, in fact, won.

What better way to train to be a politician, eh? :stuck_out_tongue:

I hate to say this, but this word is causing a world of trouble.
As long as people think that voters were somehow “manipulated”, instead of understanding that they were offered what they really wanted, there will remain a large disconnect between the two different parts of society/politics there.

If you identify the wrong problem, you get the wrong solution.
If someone gives wine to an alcoholic, the serious problem you need to treat is not “who gave them wine”, but “that they still like wine”. The middleman is irrelevant. The demand is the issue :wink:

Back on the previous issue, I am hearing various calls from politicians and analysts saying that EU countries need to rejuvenate their armies and that they grew very lax after the cold war ended (examples are given like The Netherlands selling their tanks and so forth), of course articles and calls for such a thing have been going around for years, but noone really bothered with the idea since the possibility of an actual war seemed highly unlikely to most people:

So, now we hear for calls to buy tanks and aircraft and stuff like that, however, this is like buying chrome alloy rims for your 30 year old car. You are a loooooooooooooong way to having a good car and buying gizmos ain’t going to cut it (initially it is just a publicity stunt for people that do not know better), because you need trained personel, and officers and pilots and artilery experts, and clocking training shots and flights and buying trucks and personel vehicles and stocking fuel and food and creating a supply and communications chain and test that and train them too and and and.

Do you know what this means?
That Greece, apparently, has one of the most battle-ready and well trained armies in Europe. :rofl:

I’ve been rolling this thought in my head for the past hours, along with my memories from my service, and I honestly can’t stop giggling like a small kid at the sheer insanity of that thought possibly being true.

This is not Sparta. This is madness :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m not as cynical. Sure there are many politicians like that, but those are not the politicians I would vote for and such politicians tend to not get enough votes here to wield significant power.

My impression is that many of the more powerful politicians here are competent enough to have a good career with a better salary in business or science than in politics (and some already have, like our Minister of Education, Culture and Science who is a somewhat famous theoretical physicist and he was director of the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton for 10 years).

As I see it, being a politician in a functional democracy is very much a thankless job with long working hours, requiring a thick skin. Luckily, some competent people still choose for politics, because they enjoy to participate in debate and they are driven by some idealism and desire to improve our society/country/world, believing they can achieve that better in politics than in business or science.

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I am glad and happy to hear that elsewhere things seem to be functioning better and that is the good things of such topics :slight_smile:

Just for the cultural exchange I should say that my opinion is not a matter of cynism, but simple observation.
For example, here, the vice president of the current government and top three in votes for the party in the previous election is (drumroll) a former TV salesman that used to peddle nano-vests (whatever that is :stuck_out_tongue: ) and “books by the kilo” (preferably of ancient people, so he wouldn’t have to pay royalties for ripping them off)

This dude is now vice president and minister of economic growth and investments, and had been in the past minister of health and minister of naval issues:

Yes, this dude. :innocent:

You do not have to understand the language, just for the love of whatever you hold dear, if you risk clicking that video, lower the volume of your speakers. You will understand why. :confused:

Now, what does a person that holds a degree in linguistics know about health, economic growth, investments and naval issues?
Nothing :wink:

I had this discussion a month ago when the country managed to choke in a snowstorm with a party-dog (“political party dogs” is how we call people that are fanatically loyal to their party - not to be confused with party-animals who are usually fun to be around :stuck_out_tongue: ) where he tried to say something similar and that we have to have “technocrats” in key positions.

So, I looked it up a bit and here is what I found:
Our minister of Public Safety is a political analyst.
Our minister of Justice is a doctor.
Our minister of Climate change, environment and civilian safety is a dentist.
Our minister of Education is a lawyer that never even attended a public school or university in this country.
and so on … I could make this analysis for all the governments I have lived through and I’d be surprised if 20% of the people that got a ministerial position had any knowledge of that topic they became “responsible” for.

We had a dentist and a political analyst in charge of public protection … no wonder my island’s forest burned from coast to coast this summer (oh, the mayor is a dentist too and his deputy of public safety doesn’t even have a driver’s license) .

Not to mention the people, like the aforementioned vice president, that got multiple ministrerial positions during the years … we call those people “parsleys” (because parsley goes with every food and grows everywhere here :stuck_out_tongue: ), yet the majority votes for them again and again. Whoever said that “the fish rots from the head down”, had clearly not passed by this place.

On the other hand it seems that this might happen to your country, but occassionally and it is frowned upon (I think that Jeroen Dijsselbloem fellow was an engineer in agricultural economics and he got snide remarks for it back then? Well, at least one of the four words was pertinent with his portfolio :stuck_out_tongue: ).

We do not do that here.
Do you know what is the collective work experience of our past five elected prime ministers? (Karamanlis, Papandreou, Samaras, Tsipras, Mitsotakis).
ZERO.
Zero hours spent in any work.

Karamanlis is the nephew of Old Karamanlis (former Prime minister and President)
Papandreou is the son of Old Papandreou (former Prime minister)
Samaras was a party prodigy that never worked a single day in his life.
Tsipras was a party prodigy that never worked a single day in his life.
Mitsotakis is the son of Old Mitsotakis (former Prime minister)

Zero hours spent in any work.

So, it might be thankless job there, but it is very thankful here … so thankful that the families that do the job, never seem to let go of it. EVER! :wink:

Do you know what the nephew of Old Mitsotakis, surnamed Bakogiannis ( who is currently mayor of Athens and was then Prefecture leader of Stereas Elladas) said in a visit here?
“Oh, you will be hearing my surname for many generations. After all I have four children ahahaha” (yes, he really laughed in our faces. Why wouldn’t he? :stuck_out_tongue: He knows his children will be positioned in politics. Meritocracy and all that, eh? ).

On another discussion I went and found out that my own island, in all the elections since the restoration of democracy in 1978 have elected for parliament at least one person with the surname Kedikoglou.
In ALL the elections since 1978. No exceptions. I checked them one by one. In some of them two of them were elected and they even had the same name, not only surname (they are first cousins - one is the son of the old Kedikoglou, the other is his sister’s firstborn son I think?)

But wait, you might say, they might be doing a good job.
hehehe yeah … a small bridge fell in a small flood in 2019 cutting the municipality in half. Guess what bridge is still down and projected to begin (not finish) “some time, this decade”?

I think that is enough for cultural exchange and those are just the “funny”, tip of the iceberg kind of, parts :wink:

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I wouldn’t say that we have that. Most of our ministers have experience in governance/administration, but they have varying degrees of experience/expertise in their field of governance. Here you can find the education and careers of our current ministers (a fairly new crew, because we had general elections last year, so I don’t know them that well): Members of the government | Government | Government.nl
However, they are all supported by the civil servant apparatus and advisors (experienced high ranking civil servants) of their ministry, which ensures some continuity.

As for Jeroen Dijsselbloem: apart from his controversial statements as president of the Euro Group during the economic euro crisis ~7-5 years ago, he does strike me as a person who is competent in his field of governance.

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To be fair

What the hell Greeks would be doing in Ukraine in the first place.

I guess they were naughty in their free time

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Why not? I suppose that it is common for countries to host citizens of many other countries at any point in time.

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There are 1400 Australians in Ukraine right now. Why shouldn’t there be any Greeks?

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I think there’s about 100.000 or thereabouts, mostly to the southeast, I haven’t followed closely.

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That’s a good point. It bumps into the problem of “what do people really want?”. The answer, of course, is multi-tierd. The element of “manipulation” comes into having them focus on a particular “layer” of what they want, and the expense of what would likely be seen as “best for them” from a more detached perspective.

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An uncle of my brother-in-law lives in Ukraine.

Why?

Because he couldn’t stay in Afghanistan.


Anyway – it looks as if Ukraine might win the meme war.

(just an example; you’ve all probably seen more than me)

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I don’t have many opinions about Ukraine’s leader, but he’s on the front lines (metaphorically, maybe even literally).
Visible to his people and vocal to foes and allies.

Civilians are excused if they run, leaders signed up for it. I admire this in him, our PM would be fleeing three countries over before the first bomb fell.

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As of this morning he showed proof of still being in Kyiv, which is pretty much the front lines.

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I would not like to be there right now… but apart from the Russian invasion, I have no reason to avoid going to Ukraine. Many on the ground in Ukraine never really believed that Russia would actually invade them, so I can imagine many of the people already there may not have had time to leave once Russia’s intentions became clear.

I kinda feel uncomfortable about the title of this thread now :crying_cat_face:

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So the EU did finally agree to exclude a number of Russian banks from SWIFT just now. Von der Leyen said that Putin chose to destroy Ukraine, but with that, he also destroys the future of his own country.

Together with that sanction, the EU added a few more sanctions.

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I read a bit about him. It’s not a perfect story… he basically rose to popularity by riding on the back of a TV show where he played a great president fighting corruption (even renamed his political party after the TV show…), and since then had received a lot of critics for being only good at communication and image.

He doesn’t really fit into the champion of transparency that was his TV character either. He was for example involved in the Pandora papers, which revealed a network of offshore entities to hide his wealth.

But anyway, all being said and done I agree that he is on the front lines today and that is commendable. He’s currently very active diplomatically for his country. Perhaps his main strength is image and communication but in a way that’s a very useful strength in time of war.

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I don’t think there’s ever been a week, let alone a year, without war somewhere. Usually on top of another catastrophe or two.

We are watching, as it unfolds, a brave fight against an invasion. Whatever the rest of the year holds, Ukraine’s perseverance is a highlight. I’m giving them that.

They are fighting back, and powers that be are forced to act, because people were molded into a different amalgam these past two years.

Majority still sucks, undoubtedly, but this is a trial by fire. Unavoidable. And a catalyst.

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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Nope.

ETA OK, maybe the weather. Sometimes. Maybe.

You don’t live there either. Did you watch the president of Ukraine appealing to Russian citizens that the Ukraine you have been shown on Russian TV is not the Ukraine they experience?

Also, you have no idea what traits and qualities I prioritise in choosing where my family lives. Maybe Ukraine is not nice in some regards compared to others, but all countries have their strengths and weaknesses. I don’t think there is anywhere that is objectively worse in every single regard than anywhere else.

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