I think that we should differentiate between “dynamic social media that contain advertisements and are driven by engagement algorithms” and “static social media that contain information and the ability to interact with other people”.
If you log into a dynamic social medium like TikTok, Facebook, Twitter or whatever else of that short, you will be flooded with a lot of things which the algorithm wants to distract you with and they want to retain you there even via “doom scrolling” for as long as possible so that they can profit off you for hours on end.
On the other hand static social media like fora (and thus OGF, as well), are not like that. You log in, you look at your notifications, spend a minute looking at the “last topics that you haven’t accessed”, see if anything catches you interest and then potentially read it and engage with it. You could be out in a couple of minutes.
They are two totally different things under the same label, but they have totally different effects on people and their lives, since they are used differently.
The problem with “subjective poverty” is that it’s… subjective. I know that Greece is far from being a rich country, but we don’t know if the high subjective poverty rate is due to people being more pessimistic, or if it’s due to objective reasons. I found it surprising that the subjective poverty rate is almost 3 times higher in Greece than in Romania (67% vs 24%).
Subjective poverty? What a weird concept, more suitable for psychological analysis than economic analysis.
I’ll never forget what my dad told me about the Great Depression. People often thought it was over when they got a job. That’s how it was with my grandparents. My grandfather was an engineering accountant with a big construction company in the deep south. The company went under when the Depression struck, and he supported his family by picking apples and by renting himself and his car to drive people around. When he got a federal government job in 1934 and moved to Washington, he and my grandmother talked about the Depression being over. Of course, it wasn’t over at all. That’s the nature of “subjective poverty.”
There are many objective factors, probably too long to list… almost half the country’s inhabitants owes some kind of money to the tax collector or ulitily bills, we are last or second to last in the EU a lot of very objective metrics like “average income per person”, second in unemployment rate (despite all the tricks we’ve pulled in how we measure it), first in child poverty, our banks provide the worst/lowest interest rates in Europe when it comes to deposits (and they pay fines for that) and the same bank provide the worst/highest interest rates when it comes to taking a loan and generally the average person is having a hard time with the rise of the cost of living and the skyrocketing of the rents.
Also there is a chart/map for a more objective poverty rating for 2024:
I didn’t try to figure out the exact meaning of each term, but this clarifies the term ARPT60
People who earn less than 60% of the median income are considered as poor. So if everybody’s income is multiplied by 10, those who were poor are still poor.
Yeah, that’s a bit strange, but it also makes some sense, because matters more how much money you have relatively to others than what you have absolutely. If everybody has ten times more, prices go up too.
But it’s surely not the best method to compare poverty in different countries. Maybe just good enough and simple.
Prevalence of moderate to severe food insecurity in 2021-2023: world (29), Africa (57.7), Asia (24.9), North America and Europe (8.2), Latin America and Caribbean (31.3), Oceania (25). In more detail in Europe and North America: USA (9.1), Bulgaria (14.8), Romania (19.1), Greece (6.4), France (7.9).
Proportion of the population unable to afford a healthy diet in 2022: world (35.4), Africa (64.8), Asia (35.1), North America and Europe (4.8), Latin America and Caribbean (27.7), Oceania (20.2). In more detail in Europe and North America: USA (2.5), Bulgaria (5.8), Romania (55.9), Greece (18.3), France (3.1).
The difference between Romania and Bulgaria is strange, I’m wondering if the data are accurate.
Of course food is just one aspect of poverty, other indicators should include employment, housing, access to basic health care for instance.
I won’t pretend to understand the formula, but that observation does make sense. For example, let’s say that someone has 10000 dollars in the bank for a rainy day and suddenly loses his job.
If that person is in the USA, that amount of money will probably last for 2-4 months depending on where you live and whether you pay rent or not.
If that person is in Greece, that amount of money will probably last for 10-20 months depending on where you live and whether you pay rent or not.
If that person is in Zimbambwe, that amount of money will probably last for 18-30 months depending on where you live and whether you pay rent or not.
So, the actual worth of money - even if it is the exact same currency - is relative to the wealth of the country as a whole.
Instead of “income” I should have said “purchasing power”. Or if you want, count the income in kg of wheat (for instance).
The indicator “percentage of people under 60% of the median income” doesn’t measure poverty, it measures inequalities within a country.
That is indeed a more accurate definition, but isn’t it as close as a good definition of where the boundary of poverty lies, in terms of income?
I have lived on monthly income below the “60% of the median income” before and it is a very good approximation of being poor.
For example, when I was at university (2002-2006), I lived on my own and paid rent on 500 euros per month.
When I was at the army (2008-2009), I lived on my own and paid rent on 640 euros per month.
According to this chart (the blue line), I was both times way below the minimum legal wage, let alone being below the 60% of the median wage of the country. I’d say that those were pretty poor conditions of living, by modern standards, since I could afford basic necessities, only via strict budgeting (which reminds me of a funny story for the “memories” topic, which I might write later).
You would probably be much better off with 60% of the median income in Luxembourg, than with 60% of the median income in Zimbabwe (although I agree of course that 60% of the median income in Greece is not very high).
Another indicator: percentage of people living on less than $8.30/day in 2021 international PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) dollars.
World (44.9%), China (17%), France (0.5%), Greece (2.9%), Bulgaria (5.8%), Romania (7.1%), USA (2%), Zimbabwe (85%).
But you might not be better off with say X% of the median income in Luxembourg, while still living in Luxembourg.
Let’s say I have 33% per cent of the median income of Dublin people, but I’m living in Dublin, I might still end up homeless and not able to afford rent. Or I might afford rent, not much food, and maybe no heat or electricity.
