Accommodating @Dwyrin

I did actually reach out to him a very long time ago in the sense to just ask if he would like banners for his OGS streams or some other help, and the response - while polite - seemed very uninterested in further communication. Thus I am kind of disinclined to bother with unrequested messages.

I like to think we are pretty easy to find if he really wanted to ask. :man_shrugging:

Anyone in particular comes to mind? :slight_smile:

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Out of curiosity do we know if Dwyrin applies the same thinking to the other servers? Does he play unranked on those as well?

I tend to agree with Shinuito that doing so solves a lot of potential problems.

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While it indeed solves some problems, I am inclined to thint that unranked games can really be harder to get. And some players also use those to just kind of unwind and not take them seriously or to test out crazy moves or experimental openings, which might sort of “ruin” the video potential sometimes… I guess there is no ideal solution :smiley:

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Very true - there really is not an ideal situation.

As we’ve discussed within the moderator team - what Dwyrin does is valuable enough to be supported even though it does bring some potential issues from time to time.

(And just a brief edit to point out that:

this is simply not possible. Short of anoek hacking the database, no-one can adjust ranks AFAIK.)

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Oh! I didn’t realize that. I could swear that I was once in a discussion about the problem of strong players that lose tons of rating points through massive timeouts (perhaps due to some life event that distracts them for a stretch) and then have to climb back up by playing lots of one-sided games with unsuspecting weaker players. I thought that in that discussion, someone on the OGS team said they should just ask a mod to adjust their rank back up for them.

Not a thing? False memory? Maybe once possible but no longer?

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Was possible, but isn’t possible anymore since OGS moved to Glicko2 rating system.

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Just sayin'.
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He plays ranked games on some servers, but I don’t know if all games are ranked. I remembering him “complaining”, that he has many 6d accounts on several servers because his basic accounts are ranking up.

I think the main problem would be how fast OGS accounts rank up compared to all other servers (huge plus for us, and legitimate ranked users, no so good for Dwyrin and other teachers attempting to emulate a certain anonymous strength.

Much like in Go, it is all about exchanges… you need to give up some things to gain the things you want.

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The rating system should put them on the rank they emulate. It’s only a problem if they want to emulate a rank some ranks higher than they want to play against.

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This is - theoretically - a fantastic point.

It takes the argument to it’s conclusion: “The teacher is playing as if they are 1k, so they should end up ranked at 1k”.

And when viewed this way, it points at the obvious flaw in the argument, which is that the teacher plays somewhat as if they are 1k, but they don’t actually lose as often as a 1k.

And I imagine this is partly a pride thing - and indeed maybe justified, because who wants to learn from a teacher who loses half the time - but also a practical thing. If you are teaching how to play solidly and well, you need to teach that throughout the game, not suddenly be in a losing position from which it is hard to teach “the basics”.

Conlusion: this is theoretically true if you take the argument about how “this works” at face value, but it doesn’t hold up in the face of how this really works.

(“This” being teachers teaching us using live games).

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Professional sandbagging huh saltbaggin more like, enjoys collecting the tears of the weak in a bag till enough salt is made for resale.

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Surely nobody would accuse kind-hearted Dwyrin of being salty! :open_mouth:

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The cruelest of capitalists, the ones that prey on the weak and stupid.

And no, his opponents are the salt mines

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So is there not an option of just creating an account type, which teachers must apply to get, that makes all games unranked, but appear to be ranked in the game settings.

In other words, special accounts that always appear to be playing ranked games, but that actually exist outside the ranking system? It might be mildly annoying to a player that wins a “ranked” game and doesn’t gain points. But at least people won’t be losing points to sandbaggers… I mean teachers.

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Certainly not yet. There has been a lot of banter about special “teaching tools/accounts” with lots of great ideas. I too would like to see such features one day, but the list of planned features and improvements is long :slight_smile:

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He has played a few unranked games in, I think, the Basics series. I distinctly remember his comment that he didn’t usually do that because it was hard to get unranked games in the range he typically plays in (say 11k and stronger).

I also think this would be the ideal solution.

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I would disagree that having a setting that tricks people into playing unranked games is good. I don’t think it would really look good for the server either. (While the glicko system can be confusing as apparently it takes a few games to adjust rank/rating, I’ve seen forum posts where people say their rating didn’t change after a game. That can confuse people as is without secret unranked games…)

Regarding the problem of opponents playing differently - I think in part, this is highly subjective. I agree that it is possible that if you know someone is making a series/streaming where they either pretend to be a weaker player or won’t punish mistakes too severely, then maybe you’ll play differently. Or for instance if you’re playing unranked maybe you try some things that are unusual or out there and hence don’t play ‘normally’.

For the first part if you know the account/stream you can probably know what to expect, making a teaching account with hidden unranked games or freezing/resetting a ranking won’t fix that. That’s just an inherent problem with being popular.

However the second part I think is highly subjective: whether you think an opponent you probably don’t know is playing ‘properly’, ‘usually’ or ‘normally’.

Dwyrin had a video recently ( here) where he mentions he was getting annoyed by what he thought was a player who knew Dwyrin was playing for his basics series, and was intentionally not protecting his groups. Then upon further reflection and looking into that players past games realised that said player had lost games due to life and death situations.

My point would be you don’t really have to be well rounded as a player to be an amateur.

So whether you call a game normal based on some notions you have of how an x kyu or y dan should play probably isn’t a good basis to trick people into unranked games.

I think this is especially true if there’s an intended outcome from the games, that surely random pairing and playing with people on the internet can’t always fulfil.

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