Who cares? He’s a public figure. People discuss things about public figures on online forums every day. Nobody here is under any obligation to see that he has any involvement in this thread.
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I think @AdamR’s arguement was more along the lines of ‘what good will come from this discussion’ rather than whether we’re allowed to talk about him.
If we’re discussing potential future tools for teachers and/or streamers, objectively a good thing to discuss, then how we feel about any one of those people is kind of irrelevant in terms of improving the server as a whole, right? No improvement would apply to any individual alone, but the entire group.
That’s what I took from his post anyway.
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It already was:
(Note that my statement is necessarily the end of it, but nobody has said anything to the contrary since that statement).
A response about specifics as requested as requested 
Sorry it’s long, but specifics can do that
I think the first important thing to observe is that I didn’t see “fun being made of” black’s move (N2).
What Dwyrin said was “They all get that wrong. It’s very odd that they (Kyus) get that one wrong so often”.
I don’t see this as making fun of black. It was observing that kyus have a tendency to play the wrong move here. That is an instructional thing to observe (if it is a correct observation).
I can see how Dwyrin criticizing a move that a Dan knows is a good move would be a bad experience for a Dan.
For me, a DDK trying to learn principles I can apply to improve my game, that comment is “mildly interesting, but of no consequence”. There is little chance that I will be focussed on a specific position like that and a comment like that and take it into my own game. I am not watching the video for that purpose.
I would go as far as to say “it’s unfortunate that this kind of comment is included, because it brings the risk of this sort of criticism without adding to the ‘Basics’ teaching process”.
On the other hand, it is part of the valuable “stream of consciousness” from the instructor, which is part of the value - learning “what is the person thinking as they play”.
In an ideal situation they might filter that stream more, so as not to include risky statements like that one. But maybe that is a big ask.
It’s also conceivable that Dwyrin does not agree that this is a risky statement, and would debate the goodness or otherwise of that move if he were asked. My impression is that he would be able to defend his assessment, but … the main thing … it’s of little consequence to the teaching of “Basics” which is what the video is about.
If I have a point to make, I think it is “that Dwyrin brings something I have not seen elsewhere, which is a systematic approach to the game that a DDK can apply to improve”.
The specifics of this approach are somewhat scattered through the videos, of course, but can probably be summarised as something like:
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Corners, sides, centre (the most basic beginner strategy point that everyone knows/teaches)
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Look for weak groups - yours first, fix them, then theirs - profit from them
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When there are no weak groups, identify that you have sente and look for big moves
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Big moves include forcing moves such as caps, shoulder hits
There are other themes/principles that run through the Basics vidoes also. Seeing these repeated again and again with the contextual explanation - how the person is thinking about them each time - is what makes the Basics series good for me.
A key point is that this series starts with a set like this and tries to show how to use them.
This is different to other lessons I’ve had, which start from a game or a position and talk about it, but have no real syllabus or underlying “approach” that a person can try to apply.
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How is he demeaning in his talk after move 35? Why do you object to him saying things like “hi, can i slide and take this?”. That comment is as much “translating your move” as “making fun of your opponent”. If you watch with an open mind, that move/comment might teach you that you can poke at shape weaknesses of your opponent for profit (even capture a stone) without having to fight/read much.
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@snakesss my main point was the “thank you” on the sequence starting at move 34, implying that black gave away something. While actually black gets the best out of this exchange.
@Eugene my point with N2 is that it was actually a good move. The bad moves were played by white.
I’d like to insist on this fact: in this specific game, black outsmarted white in the opening.
@Eugene and @snakesss I really appreciate the replies. We are clearly not on the same page, but it was eye opening for me to get a different perspective on my perception of the commenter’s tone.
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Can I pick up this point, which I also consciously skipped over before when you mentioned the AI reports this to be the case.
White was not playing a game in which the goal was to play moves that outsmart the opponent in the opening.
In fact, the opposite, white is deliberately playing “basic” moves that limit the opportunity to “outsmart” the opponent with Dan smarts. Because those are much harder to teach, and that isn’t the target audience.
Instead white is trying to show that by playing the basic moves, white can still stay in the game and ultimately prevail many times due to the “smart” opponent slipping up somewhere and the “basic” player having solid ground to work with.
So what you are describing happened is what you would expect.
A different point, made by smurph, is that he asserts that the premise is wrong, and that the reason the “basic” player can prevail is because he sneakily uses advanced reading and rationalises it as basic moves to win.
We are still waiting for specific examples of this assertion.
Ironically, it doesn’t actually matter much anyhow, if the basic principles being demonstrated work to help weaker kyus get stronger and the presentation of them sinks in - that’s the actual goal of this.
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I think smurph’s main point (I’m not going back to check) was that a player of dwyrin’s strength has built-in pattern recognition based on experience that far exceeds the pattern recognition of kyus. I think this is true. If I look at the high wall in a quarry, I can tell where the mineralization can be found. If I look at the rocks, I see country rock over there and pegmatite over here. Pattern recognition based on experience. So dwyrin knows at a glance, without reading, that a group is safe or another is in danger or dead. However, he very often refrains from killing altogether, pointing out the danger and waiting for the opponent to play the necessary move to live…
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Hey everyone, I read the first 20 or so comments of this thread, so I’m not sure if this idea has already come up, but I think it’s pretty good:
Maybe it should be possible for an account to flag a game as a teaching game (shidou-go)?
If you have a 6 dan account, maybe you should be able to create a game, select a teaching-game checkmark (it won’t be ranked), and then it will show up in the game UI as a teaching game. You could then say that you only want people from a specific kyu range, so teaching youtube channels who want to emulate 1 kyu can just filter that.
This solves the rank challenge because all these games will be unranked. Also people like dwyrin won’t need to make 100 accounts because he could have a single 5-7 dan account (not sure what his rank is), but create teaching games for any (lower) rank.
I think the main question here is: will people be willing to play these games since they’re still unranked? I am not sure, but considering that teaching games generally cost money, perhaps more 1 kyu players would accept a teaching game from a 5 dan player than an unranked game from another 1 kyu player.
Implementation-wise, I don’t think it would be too hard, if the teaching-game checkmark is selected, then it is automatically unranked. I’m sure that there will be other complications, but it should definitely be possible.
The last problem that I saw was mentioned was that maybe people will play differently if they know the game is unranked, i.e., they might play wilder moves. I think the fact that it’s a teaching game might mitigate some of that, and really since there is no deception going on, perhaps the sensei player could request in the chat for the deshi to play normally. This shouldn’t be that odd of a request.
Anyways, I think this would be a nice feature to add, even without dwyrin. It would set OGS apart from other online go servers with this added functionality. It preserves honesty and integrity, unlike other solutions (e.g., constantly resetting the rank, which a mod said was impossible, creating a ton of fake accounts, etc.). And lastly, it might eventually lead to scheduled/unscheduled paid teaching games, which is another source of monetization for OGS 
Sorry for reviving this old topic, but I don’t think anyone else suggested this (imo) elegant solution
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The idea of having a class of games as “teaching” is a great one, and lots of good things could be done with it. It is on the list of “major features we’d love to have”.
I’m honestly not sure it would help with Dwyrin’s mission, because his games are not “teaching” in the sense that there is “a teacher and a student in the game”.
Dywrin’s games are “showing how Dwyrin recommends that we play during a real game”.
A problem that Dwyrin faces is that if the opponent knows it’s Dwyrin doing this style of game they can take advantage of that knowledge, which basically messes it up.
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Hmm. If the games are unranked, and he requests in the chat for them to play normally, then wouldn’t it be fine? Like I mean I like to think of the go community as respectful, it’s been a while since I saw him, but has he ever tried to ask his opponents to play normally? 
I like simple solutions with no deception
by the way, if you’re looking for part-time programmers, I’d be happy to help (for free). I’m a software engineer, and I love this site, would be happy to contribute
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The current solution is that he plays unranked games, which he gets normally through the “Play” page.
Developers are very very welcome
Note that the client is open source, the server is not.
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I would say one argument against this is that you can probably already do this (not that I’m against it, I just like to help discussions along).
What I mean is that you can just make an unranked challenge and title it “teaching game” and you have options to restrict the opponents rating/rank to accept it.
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That’s true and a great point, and I thought about that, but I think that making it an ‘official’ feature, would make players more likely to do it (I’ve never seen it happen before).
And also making it a feature, things could be added to it in the future. For example, I mentioned potentially monetizing it. Perhaps the sensei’s could be given a five star rating at the end of their game by the deshis (or just an option to star the sensei or not), and their rating shows up next to their name in the future, and maybe comes with perks or something. OGS would benefit from having a community of players giving good teaching games. Players with a good rating could then charge more or have their spots fill up more, etc.
Maybe it can allow the sensei’s more features in game like marking the board, etc.
Anyway, these are just the first ideas that come to mind, I’m sure you all could come up with better ideas. I just think this will be utilized more than it currently is (I don’t think it is at all) if it becomes official (and maybe has some small perks).
I was just thinking to myself from dwyrin or some other player’s point of view, they don’t just make unranked games and call them teaching, for whatever reason. Maybe if they could, and maybe even charge their viewerbase or show off on YouTube that they have 100 stars or a 90% approval rating or something then they might at least try it out.
Anyway, I think that in the future, when there is time to implement stuff like this, it’s a cool knew feature that would be more than just what you listed above. Still, you made a great point and we should always compare what is implemented with what is already possible.
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I know what you mean, when it’s a feature there’s a lot of room for improvement.
There was a feature on kgs that I hadn’t noticed before (I wasn’t really using kgs but our go club decided to meet online there regularly now). It’s like where all comments are visible, like players and spectators comments. I guess its more like if you had a casual game at a go club where people can all meet up and chat and catch up while the game is on.
You could make a toggle like that if it is a feature, be handy for when groups get updated with the api.
At the moment if you have analysis enabled, I suppose you could share variations with board markings.
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Necroing this thread because … revising my harsh judgment from July 2019.
I‘ve watched a lot of Dwyrin’s videos recently, and I must admit: the more I watch him, the more I like him!
So, my perception of him has changed. No clue whether he himself changed, or only I & my perception of him, or both. But well, then again everything must change, eh?
So, if you read this, @Dwyrin (if that’s you at all), please know that I appreciate your work, thank you!
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#necro …
… b/c I have ambivalent feelings again.
Just shows how complex things are, eh?
There’s no such thing as a purely black and white world: the Goban and its inhabitants—Black and White—are only a simulation, just like the Taiki 
is a mandala, a symbol, idealized, and simplified, even OVERsimplified—but that in itself is symbolic again. (Now think about that last part again).
Anyway, back to my ambivalent feelings … between the idealized knightly gentleman and the deprecated scoundrel is … a real human. Surprise surprise.
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I am always quite astonished how much time people can spent on thinking about Dwyrin. I mean I get botted, count cheated on OGS anyway those are points I get somewhat angry about but playing a human game with too few handicap … well this happens even in tournament settings at some point
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