"Auto-vacation"

Yes, I think you are putting on a performance, and I am sharing that feeling with you.

Sorry if it’s melting your face that I’m reflecting back to you the effect that your rhetoric is having on me.

For what it’s worth, when people tell me “dude, you’re over-reacting”, which happens from time to time, I listen, take stock, and most times they are right. I apologise, correct as best I can and move on hopefully improved.

Can you say the same?

I stand be every one of those descriptions of your rhetoric.

I’ve taken the trouble to point them out because of the adverse effect they have.

I want to have a conversation about “how to fix a problem that I introduced”. I think that typically this forum is a fantastic place for that kind of conversation.

But not in the face of silly dramatics. It’s not in my nature to just let this go past uncommented.

You can take the high ground, call me oversensitive, and carry on regardless. We’ll all be worse off for it.

Just as me being an OGS user doesn’t give me the right to demand things, just being an OGS dev doesn’t give you the right to be an asshole whenever your ego is bruised. I too can’t let this go past uncommented.

Do whatever the fuck you want with autovacation. Muting threads has always been a blessing.

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I mistapped and did not mean to like the previous post, but it’s too late to unlike it now.

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Hate when that happens. My bane on Instagram, Facebook and pretty much all social media. I guess my bad for using them in the first place :sweat_smile:

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Well, it seems Gia and I each think the other is being an asshole.

In all likelihood the truth is we both are :slight_smile:

Nobody is ever the villain in their own story - that’s the case for me here. :laughing:

For my part, I react the way that I do because I simply don’t think it’s OK for people to walk into the community, where we’re all working hard and in good faith to have a great server, and behave as if “OGS” is some faceless uncaring and irresponsible entity that you can be infinitely rude about without consequences. OGS is just “us people”, and we all deserve more courtesy and good will than this.

I don’t have any real insight into why Gia thinks her performance here is the virtuous one, other than perhaps it’s important to keep oversensitive devs in their place :woman_shrugging: .

Anyhow, thanks for all the constructive suggestions about where to take autovacation.

I’m genuinely on the fence between “just revert the darn thing” and “continue to improve it to lessen the adverse effects”.

I’ll let that gel while getting some other priorities out the way, and see where it lands then.

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The original intention behind the Vacation rule undoubtedly carries a human-centered warmth beyond pure competition — providing a buffer for players facing unforeseen circumstances such as sudden illness, menstruation-related discomfort, or urgent family matters. This goodwill should not be dismissed. However, any rule has two sides: Vacation can also be activated in situations where no such human considerations are necessary, becoming a tool that, within the boundaries of the rules, consumes the opponent’s time, prolongs the game, and disrupts its rhythm.

There are two extremes: one is the No-Vacation mode, where Vacation is entirely disabled; the other is what I temporarily refer to as “strategic utilization,” where Vacation is fully used within the limits allowed by the rules. Both deviate from the intended purpose of Vacation as a mechanism for human-centered accommodation.

In the past, although this issue existed, it was not prominent. Most players used Vacation with restraint, activating it only when genuinely necessary. As a result, the environment remained in a long-standing intermediate state between “complete prohibition” and “strategic utilization.” The introduction of Auto-Vacation, however, shifted this balance — originally maintained through individual restraint — toward the side of “strategic utilization,” now executed by default through the system.

This binary, either-or design overlooks a long-standing issue: players have different levels of tolerance. One player may be willing to accept a 30-day delay, while another may only tolerate a one-day delay. For the former, Auto-Vacation is almost negligible; for the latter, it can become a significant obstacle. Neither side can easily understand the other’s perspective, and discussions often become emotional. What we ultimately want is for every game to be completed fairly and properly, without being affected by external factors beyond the board. We should not waste energy on trivial disagreements, but instead focus our limited attention on the greatest shared interest. Sometimes, differences are not obstacles, but opportunities for complementarity.

I would like to say a few words in defense of Gia. Vacation indeed leads to a sustained perception of reduced fairness among some players. In the past, because most people used it with restraint, this perception, while present, remained within an acceptable range for most. Auto-Vacation, however, amplifies this experience, turning what was once a tolerable issue into something that must be voiced and confronted. Agreed-upon time controls between players fail to function as effective constraints when it matters most. Once such situations occur even a few times, they are enough to produce strong feelings of frustration and anger. I do not claim to fully understand everything Gia intended to express, but I believe it includes at least this sentiment: such emotions can directly undermine the purity of the game, leaving players feeling constrained and frustrated on every move, precisely because the agreed-upon rules ultimately fail in practice. This is not something that can be solved simply by reducing Auto-Vacation duration. This issue has long gone unrecognized or unacknowledged, even though there is already some consensus that Auto-Vacation needs improvement.

There are no two identical leaves in the world. It is natural that we differ. The fact that “you” cannot understand the problem “I” face does not mean that “I” am not genuinely affected by it. Rather than arguing over which preference is more reasonable, we should leave space for these differences to coexist. On the basis of seeking common ground while respecting differences, we should pursue a more inclusive and adaptable solution. With this in mind, I propose adding a configurable parameter to game time settings — the “Maximum Vacation Delay” — which can be set by either players or tournament organizers, and allowing individual games can be excluded from global Vacation effects. The main reasons are as follows:

  1. Personalized tolerance configuration
    This parameter allows players to predefine the “Maximum Vacation Delay” they are willing to accept. When set to 0, it is equivalent to the current No-Vacation mode; when set to infinity, it is equivalent to the current Auto-Vacation mode; values in between provide a balanced middle ground that accommodates both efficiency and human consideration.

  2. Preventing unnecessary expansion of rule scope
    This setting applies only to individual games. Under the current system, participating in No-Vacation tournaments often disables Vacation functionality at the account level, affecting unrelated games. In the proposed system, each game can have its own independent configuration. Even when a player enters global Vacation, games with a defined maximum delay will continue to operate according to their own rules. In other words, Vacation remains a global mechanism, but individual games can decide whether they are affected based on mutually agreed settings.

  3. Compatibility with casual games, tournaments, and rating systems
    This approach is compatible with both tournaments and ranked systems. Tournament organizers can use historical data to estimate average player return times and set reasonable default limits, ensuring schedule predictability while preserving necessary human flexibility. Meanwhile, Vacation as a global resource mechanism remains unchanged; it is simply transformed from “unbounded waiting” into “bounded, configurable waiting.”

What I want to emphasize is that feelings do not need to be proven in order to deserve respect. For some players, Auto-Vacation is a minor adjustment; for others, it brings real feelings of loss of control, frustration, and helplessness. If you cannot understand someone else’s experience, that is acceptable — but it should not lead us to deny its validity. We need to make space for such differences, rather than forcing uniformity in tolerance and preference. Overreaction is often the outer layer of powerlessness, beneath which lies a genuine need that has not yet been seen or acknowledged.

Even when the expression is uncomfortable or the examples are imperfect, it is still necessary to try to understand what is being expressed. This is often difficult. If we only respond to “How can you say this?” without asking “Why do you feel this way?”, we risk missing the very issues that need to be addressed. Anger, anxiety, and strong opposition are themselves valuable forms of feedback.

Our true shared interest is not simply to support or oppose Auto-Vacation, but to ensure that every game can be played within a mutually acceptable framework, as free as possible from external interference. If the problem comes from differences, then the solution should allow those differences to exist.

PS: I used AI to translate those passages. I’m confident that there was nothing disrespectful in what I originally wrote in my native language. I would normally go over the translation myself, but it’s very late here and I don’t have the energy to review every wording choice. If anything came across as offensive, please know that it was completely unintentional.

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I am usually in favor of more customisation and giving some options on vacation system could look promising.

Still is remaining to fix exactly every thing, including what are the default settings proposed.

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Is this true? I have never played a no-vacation game, however I always assumed that the player could just go on vacation and those games just continued running out of time. If you’re entirely forbidden to go on vacation, this is definitely an issue that needs fixing.

I think yes and no. In a way these are two axis, two degrees of freedom: one is the continuum of vacation tolerance (let’s say a real number of seconds), and the other is whether you allow vacation to be toggled automatically right before timeout (a boolean yes or no). I’d rather have them remain separate, but otherwise I think it’s pretty reasonable.

Another related thing to consider: is vacation tolerance per-game?, per-move?, fisher-style?, replenishes over time? I imagine, again thinking of extreme cases, that a per-move tolerance could see someone let this clock run up to the last second, only to keep stalling for another week, or month or whatever in the next move.


Overall I would think the path of least resistance, development wise, would be to be able to allow or disallow vacation for individual games, this being independent of every other game. Any perk beyond that, I consider a win already.

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Thanks for taking the trouble to compose a long and thoughtful reply, addressing both vacation and communication issues with constructive solutions, all with care in translation.

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It’s certainly supposed to be the case that “no vacation” means “vacation does not affect this game - there will be ‘no vacation’ from this game”.

Maybe we need a different term, though I suspect it will be hard to find a concise one.

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Thank you for pointing that out. It seems I clearly missed something — I remember that the no-vacation tournament previously recommended turning off auto-vacation to avoid being disqualified due to accidental vacation mode. It makes sense in this regard now.

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A relentless game :winking_face_with_tongue: .
Only three things are certain: death, taxes and this game.

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WHAT, you really feel the need to put the boot in?

TBH, in my perception it was you who began going ad hominem, totally unnecessarily. In my eyes that was not only making fun of Gia but outright bullying her.

  1. “Truth”? Really?

  2. And do you really believe this is funny?

Apparently you do think this is funny :disappointed_face:

Does being second “lead developer” entitle you to behave like that?

<edit>
Re: “hysterical” – will you next suggest hysterectomy?

Oh, did you delete that “hysterical” part? Why?
Nah, you didn’t … I searched for mistyped word, sry.

</edit>

Thanks for the feedback.

I wasn’t aware of the ontology of the word “hysterical”, I used it simplistically to describe the response I was seeing as per this definition:

“A state of extreme, irrational panic, fear, or excitement where someone cannot control their feelings, crying, or laughing.”

The “sky is falling, OGS is broken” response to this auto-vacation issue is irrational to the point where the feedback was clearly not controlled, it was excessive - hysterical.

It’s unfortunate that it is connected in the way that you showed in a case where the person being described is female, I regret that and apologise.

I was grimacing ironically at myself, for having been an asshole and admitting it.

This actually goes to the heart of my reaction.

I continually ponder this: it takes effort to be polite. Effort and consideration. You have to step back from rudeness, see what’s behind it, and compose a rational response.

Why is it that it’s fine for your average user not to make any effort at all, and follow their base instincts to rudeness, wheras someone who is already making efforts for the community is expected to make more effort to be polite as well?

Every now and then I get a gutful of this expectation, and feel “if you’re going to be rude, so am I”.

Why is it that I am not entitled to do this, just because I write some code?

Why is it that because I already contribute here I’m held to a higher standard of behaviour, which … due to my actual frequent contributions… has to be upheld continuously and often because my efforts put me in the firing line of others’ rudeness in the first place?

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Whine as much as you want – see, that would be your own “medicine”, therefore I’ll take that back because that’s now how I like to discuss.

That’s not happening, even though I acknowledge that you(obviously) seem to feel that way – i.e. because someone criticises something how OGS works you seem to take it as a personal attack and thus attack back.

(Note: while I have these questions about standards, I’ve also taken on board that the outcomes of anyone being rude - me or others - are almost never positive, and resolved (once again) to temper this reaction).

This thread started with a legitimate complaint about a well-intended feature, a feature that also has people in favour of it.

Despite that GaJ quickly admits that it should be looked into. Then GaJ and others brainstorm solutions. Admittedly this wasn’t a fast proces, but it’s also not an easy subject.

At some point consensus is reached and GaJ confirms multiple times that addressing the issue is on his todo list.

Despite that, Gia posts:

While the post is “anonymized” by naming it OGS, how that post comes across (to me) is: it’s ridiculous that Anoek and GaJ don’t instantly execute what I want.

It completely ignores the effort so far in coming to a better solution, as well as the stated commitment by GaJ of addressing the situation.

In my opinion, a fitting yet still critical response would be along the lines of “This is taking too long for my liking but I’m glad it’s being addressed”.

I’m not going to prescribe how someone should react, but I can say that it’s disheartening to add yet another negative comment after putting in the effort of thinking about a solution and committing to implementing it.

Yes, a faux-pas here by GaJ is the use of the word hysterical. And that seemed to have triggered / escalated what followed.

It’s a shame it had to become sort of ugly but the main thing to take away here is that effort should be rewarded, otherwise we’ll eventually see that there’s nobody to put any effort in.

GaJ said as much, with regards to motivation, and despite being so open with his feelings, he got it back in his face that he was taking it personal and that “his ego was bruised.”

I’m really surprised at this response. Shouldn’t this be personal? I love that the people working on OGS are personally committed.

They could be doing the bare minimum, but they don’t. On the contrary. Every feature here came to life by someone thinking: “hey, this will make the community happy”.

That’s what I sorely miss in this thread: The realisation that anybody working on OGS could also be doing something else, but they don’t, for the love of the community. That is deeply personal! Everyone here putting in effort is personally involved.

But if there is no love, kindness, patience from the community, then why would they… don’t you guys see that?

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Whoever doesn’t understand that criticism and personal attacks are not the same thing and are not equal needs therapy. It’s not my fault that some people have conflated their personality with their code so much that they need therapy.

And it’s not my fault some people are so emotionally illiterate that they can’t tell criticism and personal attacks apart.

I didn’t see the thread about questioning basic human rights like bodily autonomy and freedom face that much opposition. That was allowed to fester for the longest time. OGS men can be sexist, misogynist, pretend to not know how their own language works and everything, translate my words to mean whatever they want them to mean

(

Really??? Because this comes across to me as “I’ll invent intention in any way to make the man seem right”.

Why must my words be twisted, but GreenAsJade is allowed to pretend “oh I’m sowwy I didn’t know about hysterical” although I pointed it to him very clearly. Because y’all just support each other.)

@anoek you should think long and hard why no women ever last in your community. We all leave, dejected and disappointed and hurt. Do you just need the assholes so you put up with them, or do you honestly find their behaviour fine? I mean, a job’s a job, I understand that, I work for a living, too :woman_shrugging:t2:.

Also @anoek I request my whole existence in the forums to be scrubbed. I’m pretty sure there is an EU law that allows this. I’m keeping my main OGS account to play games, but I don’t want to ever interact with any of your ever again (except some of you, you know who your are).

And I’m cancelling my subscription.

PS The only woman who got a free pass again and again, took tremendous effort to protect men from her (some nice mods for example) and was allowed to do significant damage before the decision to stop her was Sofia, and she was a psycho mental bitch. Sit with that for a moment.

I sincerely hope y’all one day grow up to be proper and decent humans, but I’m not holding my breath.

I think problem №1:

  • everyone writes not clearly.

Problem №2:

  • everyone fails to understand what others tried to write.

Considering it was my post that was the last straw, I’ll take responsibility for not addressing the harmful words to women, and you specifically. Other than calling it a faux-pas and ugly, that is lazy on my end and I apologise.

As someone who takes special care that the women in my private life and workplace aren’t interrupted, overshadowed or passed for promotion this feedback hits me hard. I have grown up with mostly women and the fact that every single one has very negative toxic masculinity experiences is the worst thing there is. So again, my apologies.

In my post I pointed to your post which happened before that, however. Now imo you do need to look at that. I explain how it comes across to me, in earnesty, and you brush that off as male protectionism. It’s frankly the opposite.

The truth is that I would’ve posted earlier if GaJ wasnt a man or if indeed you were. I didn’t want the only active woman on this forum feeling singled out. However you were, and still are, not seeing your part in this discussion, and the effects it has on GaJ.

It is clear to me and I assume GaJ that your post is not a personal attack. Yet it still has real negative personal consequences. That is quite a difference.

I don’t know how, if someone works 8-10 hours a day every day on something, they can’t at some level take “their lifes work” personal.

I do not require therapy to understand that. As I’m sure you don’t need therapy to understand that criticism can be demotivating, even if it’s not a personal attack.

Lastly, I do not care about your genders. For the longest time I didn’t even correctly know your genders. When I joined I assumed that both Anoek and GaJ were female since Anoek is a common Dutch women’s name and a Jade is used in jewellery. It’s all the same to me. I know that it’s not all the same in the real world for others though, which is why I try to actively moderate other men.

As far as harmful threads not receiving scrutiny, I don’t know about that. As far as other women not staying here, I don’t know about that either. I feel sad about both subjects.

So in final, I hope you consider staying and keeping open communication.

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