Consultation Games

Scherm­afbeelding 2023-03-24 om 19.53.29

Well, maybe Go Variants is a better category.

Or general go discussion. (I changed it btw)
Support is more about help to use the site, things like that.
There are some description of each category, but i agree there are not obvious to find.

Oh, groovy! Thanks so much👍

Unrated games, you can do whatever you want as long as all parties agree.

It’s not easy to get the agreement though practically unless with friends.

For example, China has team go competition with coach, participated even by pros. The playing players are on their own, but the coaches and teams can discuss, then the coaches can decide the timing to sub. One common strategy is to open with weak players cause opening nowadays is not that important, with strong players to play mid game. But even with pro participation, this probably still belongs to fun game category.

Another example is to team up with AI to play rengo. My friend and I wanted to try just for fun, but couldn’t get others to join.

We also discussed to allow pre defined number of times to consult AI, but never really tried it.

Basically you can be creative to organize anything you want, but good luck to get it actually happen. :rofl:

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Shh don’t tell Conrad you’re allowed to use AI at OGS, in this way :wink:


And in all seriousness, it’s not actually widely publicised that this is “grudgingly allowed”. The main message at OGS is that “AI is not allowed”. The part about “unless you agree in advance with your opponent, and it’s unranked” is very parenthetical.

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I was not aware that this is the case. AFAIR anoek was opposed to allowing centaurs on OGS, even in unranked games, and there was no exception even if opponent was aware and in agreement.

But teaming up with AI in a rengo game is different, I suppose. At the time of that discussion, I think rengo wasn’t even supported yet on OGS.

The problem with allowing changes to the rengo rules by agreement in the current context is that it is a dishonest bait-and-switch situation. A person signs up for rengo, and then is impressed into playing a game that is effectively the opposite. And if they choose not to play, they have still had their time wasted and been subjected to unnecessary disappointment.

There is a whole title tournament dedicated AI-human pairs. (See Alan Turing Main Title Tournament 2022)

Due to the limitations of tournaments, all these games are actually ranked :grimacing:

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Maybe I misunderstood - I’ll check.

EDIT:

I checked.

Q: If a user wanted to play unranked games where they are relaying moves from a bot, and had agreement in advance from their opponent would that be OK, stressing unranked?

Anoek: Yes.

What is definitely not allowed is bots-pretending-to-be-bots-but-actually-being-people: at OGS when something is marked “bot” it’s expected that there is no human in the loop.

I can see this point, in theory.

Can we wait to see if it unfolds in practice?

There are ways that intelligent conduct would avoid this - for example naming the game with the intent, and having the intent first and foremost in the chat.

Relying on intelligent conduct is not always a great recipe, but I’m not convinced that the possibility of this problem is enough to rule out the option?

In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to join a rengo (by clicking join) and finding in the chat that it is something special, then leaving again.

It would be unreasonable to join a rengo, wait for a while as others join, then have someone say “hey everyone, how about we be experimental”. I imagine that if this were reported on the grounds of “timewasting obstruction” that’d be upheld.