How about Farmville? Lol
Kidding. I see your point and I agree.
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Have not actually played farmille 
somehow the idea is not so tempting for me. Now delicious candy, thatâs something more for me!
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Interesting point! If Shogi really is more popular in Japan, I wonder whether that accounts for Japanâs decline in professional go dominance. Also, has the shift in interest occurred because of the effect of modernity, which would link East and West in this particular? Or even, perhaps, a result of the influence of the West on Japan?
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I am naturally inclined to sympathise with your sentiment here, but I have had reason for optimism in recent years. Although classical music (the only kind I am qualified to speak about) is in commercial decline, a steady stream of outstanding young performers are up and coming. There is no cause for fear about art. I love art (though I am utterly incapable) and have seen many county and state-wide high school art shows. The level of technical and imaginative accomplishment is astonishing and abundant. The U.S. has dance schools all over the place, and many of their students have a high level of achievement. âBuilding thingsâ is less clear to me, but I have seen no decline in the âdo-it-yourself,â American tradition. On a personal level, I had long worried that various circus skills were in declineâespecially jugglingâbut it isnât so, as one can see in YouTube videos. Anthony Gatto, who will be 44 this year, set records for technical prowess in his youth in the 1990s. Take a look at the 2016 world juggling day video to see numerous high schoolers practicing their amazing skills in a gymnasium. And I recently saw a video of a high school kid, in what appeared to be a talent show, who has mastered the style of the silent comedians and combined it with juggling for a knockout comedic act.
To bring it back on topic, I think we can also take heart at the many young prodigies in go, who are even becoming numerous at the top level of play.
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I really hope youâre right. Itâs just depressing to me when I come in contact with so many adults under 30 who have never swung a hammer if you take my meaning. Nor have they used any tools besides their phone, computer mouse, and TV remote. Lol?
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You may well be right. Sometimes, though, they may be driven by necessity to improve themselves. I had no background in manual artsâI just wasnât brought up that wayâthough I did some stints of unskilled labor in my youth. It was only when I became a homeowner that I got some skills, repairing and even shingling some places in my roof, laying in a drainage pipe, and building brick and concrete walls, as well as doing some painting.
Of course, it is hard to tell what is a trend and what is an exception. I think reading is in decline (as a percentage of population), even though the gross number of readers may be increasing.
Just thought of a skill that does seem definitely on the wane: map reading.
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Oh for sure!
Yes that is encouraging. The more I learn about Go, the more I do hope it can increase its foothold here in the states. Whether or not AlphaGo or AlphaZero is a relevant future topic in the public eye, Iâd like to do my part and keep the momentum going.
I do have a couple nieces and nephews that will soon be old enough to learn Go 
I donât think so. Itâs actually the same in China, where Xiangqi is far more popular than Go. As I understand it, Go in Asia is considered a serious game, not fit for the casual player.
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That seems an odd social barrier, but I donât doubt it. Do you think we might face a similar stigma in the West, potentially inhibiting the popularity of Go even as awareness of its existence increases?
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Absolutely, much to our dislike. This made me think of times when I attempted to explain Go as a âgame that has been played for thousands of yearsâ, and most people don´t grasp to this concept and simply dismiss it. If we already consider chess to be a game for intellectuals I have no doubt Go is mostly seen for intellectuals, and geeks.
Sorry for sounding so pessimistic, I didn´t mean for this to come out so harsh 
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Well, thatâs probably because it is less of a casual game than Chess or Xiangqui. Thatâs actually the thing Iâm struggling with in my Go learnings. In Chess/Xiangqui you can have really fast games. I havenât played that many Xiangui games than chess games, but actually the positions are even more open, the game faster, from what I understand. So you can have a 5 minute blitz that lasts max 10 minutes, or if youâre really daring and casual, play a bullet that lasts two minutes max. With 200+ moves in a Go game thatâs not an option; You really need to sit down and reserve half an hour to an hour.
(Iâm going for correspondence games because of that)
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At least for me itâs the same. I learned Go decades ago, never got past that initial steep learning curve between âknow the very few rulesâ and âknow enough basic patterns to not get all your groups killedâ 
But after viewing the analysis of Alphago games, I needed to learn it again, and now Iâm seriously addicted 
I found the analysis videos of the games totally fascinating - Michael Redmond did an extremely good job at explaining them in a way that even a beginner could grasp how e.g. stones on one side of the board have influence on the other side of the board.
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That was exactly the camp I fell into, despite playing Chess avidly and being called a geek and a nerd most of my life. I thought Chess was for smart people and Go was an esoteric exercise for savants.
Eventually I realized that Chess is more a game of experience than intelligence, and there is no need to put it on such a pedestal. Playing well is not proof unto itself of any intellectual superiority.
Of course, with the pervasive thought-conditioning of visual media, what are people to think?
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Actually I think the stigma for Go is like those of strategy games in general. People often think that strategy games arenât âfor themâ in that they claim that it makes them âthink too much.â
Now Iâm not going to dispute this, but I think the problem stems from the fact that strategy games have a steep entry level learning curve (especially if you donât like reading guides), and, as has been said, is seen as a game for intellectuals.
And this is a cultural phenomenon that I personally find confounding. Yes, the game is incredibly intellectually taxing, but only if you play it seriously, so if you just play it casually (which I know many people do) it can still be incredibly fun, but I think the thing is people are a bit too focused on how far they are from the top, which propels society to play more games of chance than those of strategy, since those have a lower distance from top to bottom, and Go certainly has a huge distance between 30k and 9p.
This is just my own supposition, I donât actually know, but it is curious.
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What we are describing for Go in Asia is actually very similar to what I see for sports backed by a pro system in the US. If you are a high schooler, you are not given many opportunities to practice soccer, basketball or swimming in a casual way. Clubs are driven by competition, which means tryouts and selection.
Similarly, a kyu-level player doesnât have a place in an Asian Go club (I am not even talking about 20+ year old beginners).
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But people of all ages in the US still play sports casually for fun. Are you saying people in Asia donât play Go except to advance as professionals?
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You are clearly exaggerating what I said, but yes, they usually take it seriously. What maybe you donât realize is that Go is part of the education system. Many of those players were sent to Go school at the age of 6 or 7, and spent hours in the classroom every week.
Sure. What I am saying is that it is confidential compared to the competitive system. My sonâs high school has dozens of competitive teams, while I have never seen any mention of a casual basketball or swim club. Just my personal experience.
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Not exaggerating, just looking for clarification. I am fairly ignorant of Japanese Go customs and culture so thank you for your answers.
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I guess it depends where from the West you are from, but people meet casually to do/play something they enjoy. Aside from swimming, which is something more individual anyway, I have seen these type of clubs when it comes to football, basketball and of course board games including chess or Go. The element of competition is there, sure: as a member you can participate in any given tournament (provided the club decided to participate that is) but most people just do it for fun.
Much like when a parent sent their kid to study music like piano or cello, they keep doing it for years and either become successful or hate it, but that doesnât mean we wonât pick up any instrument and just play for fun right? I do see your point though that Asian culture is more dedicated towards this type of education, whereas in the West it isnât, but perhaps because of that Go has a chance of eventually become more and more popular as people simply try it out at any age.
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