Isn’t that a strawman? I assume Clossius meant a stone’s worth of reverse komi per stone beyond, but 14x as precise. That said, I would be all for integrated support for reverse komi handicaps
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Didn’t someone (probably @Maharani ) run KataGo and find extremely high correlation in practice to the 2x komi figure?
Perhaps he did, but just yesterday I saw a table which gave about 6.5 reverse komi per rank difference. So it seems that at least some people think that’s proper.
Yes 2x komi ~= 1 stone between equal-strength strong players (if those players play for maximum score and do not slack off due to being ahead/behind). But handicap games are generally between a strong player and a weaker player, not equal players. And KataGo cannot simulate weaker human-like players well.
The entire point of my post was that even supposing that giving 8 * 13 extra points to black or giving 8 extra stones to black both results in black winning on average by the same amount when both players play perfectly, it doesn’t mean that both options provide the same balance to winning chance between two very differently-ranked players.
For example, one could imagine that even if a stone is worth about 2x komi objectively and even if this also remains roughly true in practice between equal players even when those players are far from perfect, perhaps when there is a large strength difference, the average value that the weaker player can squeeze out of an extra stone now falls below 2x komi. If that were true, then it might be that the best reverse komi to offer equal game chances to players that would be evenly matched with 6 handicap stones might not be 2 * komi * 6 (minus white’s normal 1x komi). Or perhaps not - I’m saying we probably don’t have enough data to be confident either way. (Edit: Or do we? If we do then that’s great!)
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Was it a table of classes, which are defined equal to komi aka 1/2 a stone?
Well, I’m in the camp that thinks that since KataGo says 7.0 is the fairest integer komi on 9x9, that’s what we should use at all levels, even if 5.0 gives a more even win percentage to the colors at low levels, so for me the evaluation of strong AI is the ultimate arbiter. If that means I lose more games as black, or as Shitate, then so be it, it’s not the game’s fault I’m bad at it
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I will leave the math to the math people. My point is, a DDK cannot beat me with 9 stones. But I want to have a non restricted rank because it means a faster match. Also, if I use automatch then I can play weaker players on smaller boards and have a real chance of losing. (Automatch is currently limited to +/-9)
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I can only seem to create a game with integer komi by choosing custom komi, even when choosing New Zealand rules. I like to play all my games ranked, so I never use custom komi… is there a way to play ranked, using NZ rules, while allowing for draws?
jthile: If you create a game with NZ rules with a player the same rank as you, the komi will be 7. You don’t need to choose “custom komi”. The dialog box shows “5.5” when I do that but this is just a minor glitch, when the game starts the komi will actually be 7.
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Ah, thank you — that makes sense, as I was looking at the preview rather than actually starting the game. Will create a game with confidence at next opportunity. 
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@hexadedron, that is fascinating, and I’ll check it out. Thanks! Have never seen a database like this before. Have been curious about a 9x9 opening book for decades.
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Indeed. I wonder if @dexonsmith or @GreenAsJade have an ace up their sleeves for fixing this…? 
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I can try to figure this out… can someone take a screenshot to help make sure I’m fixing the right thing?
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There may be other places where it shows up, but I had posted this screenshot (bottom of picture):
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Does this mean that I can play a ‘ranked’ game with handicap and komi set automatically against a player more than 9 ranks different from me?
Does that mean black will get more than 9 handicap stones and if so, where will they be placed under Japanese rules?
How are the handicaps decided exactly, anyway? I understand from previous threads that it is the “overall” (sometimes called “global”) rank which is used, but is that the number in the top left of the 4x4 table on one’s page or is it the number next to one’s name on one’s home page? How is this latter calculated?
You are tha man! 8)
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yes
no (on 19x19)
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I updated this page with the new handicap table and some other info:
Please let me know if I got anything wrong.
There are still some aspects that are unclear to me, such as how color assignment works for even games, or the komi for handicap 19x19 under various rulesets - especially NZ.
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