Thanks. Maybe I understand better now what you mean.
I would also like it when some automated detector flags games where my opponent uses AI.
But I don’t think a good, fast and cheap cheating detector already exists. If it did exist, we would not be needing to record ourselves on video while playing online EGF tournaments.
That’s one hurdle.
Another hurdle is the cost of analysing all games played on OGS (in realtime).
I read that about 100,000 games are played on OGS per week (in 2019, possibly more nowadays).
Also, the cost of the online compute required to analyse 100,000 games to a good level was estimated at 600 USD by someone on reddit not too long ago.
I know nothing about OGS’ finances, but it may be a bit much to ask OGS to provide free botting detection for all games played on OGS, while that may cost OGS something on the order of 600 USD per week. To my knowledge, OGS isn’t particularly rich.
If you keep your cheating at a low enough level, I doubt AI can detect it. For instance, use an enhanced client that will give you 3 moves a game. You could craft such a tool for PGETC.
Yeah, I made a similar observation in arguing that just because getting away with cheating is possible, doesn’t mean we should allow or condone it or not take action when it’s not done so subtly (not that anyone here is arguing we ought to condone cheating)
“Thirdly, and most importantly, there’s just not that much at stake! Most of the games here are basically social games. There’s no prize money and not that much prestige.”
Exactly. Cheaters cheat themselves. Let them.
Other organizations using OGS as a platform, with prizes and titles at stake, may want to investigate cheating, but why would OGS invest the resources? We are in any case better than the servers selling AI advice by the game or move.
Because the typical experience of the typical user is that “encountering an AI cheat is not pleasant”.
For a variety of reasons.
Sure, there’s not a lot at stake. That’s why we discourage “fights” and “rudeness” about it.
But we want OGS to be the most pleasant place to play Go online, and knowing that we’re doing the very best we can to deter AI cheating is part of that.
I Agree, Its getting ridiculous.Im not a master or even have made it to SDK But been playing Go for years… Im a 13 At Fox Weiqi Server. I had stop playing here because of the ovious cheating. At Fox peple get ban for months or lifetime all the time for cheating. Here nothing ever seems happens. And when your trying to honestly improve your game and ranking which is what matters; Its imposiible and frustrating. There is really no point in playing against cheeters. Just reasently On OGS I made it back up to18k… And soon enough 24k or more like “24k OGS Dans” came out and thats all she wrote. its like playing an engine. Who wants to play an engine… I Hope OGS can Do something. Fox and Chess.com, Liches Do.. This can makes this platform useless… I love playing in OGS But its getting to be to much…
How do I know. Because, while I may not read Chinese I do read English… And In the bulleting board live chat that they have on the side of your Go board where players talk, and anouncement happen, I read all the time while playing: Such and such User is band for a month, such and such user is band for 10 years( Ive seen that its preety funny ten years, kinda rudiculous) such and such player is ban for Life. You see this type of anouncement all the time. I never report people, here or on chess.com or anywhere really I Didnt know fhats how it works. But on Chess.com they message me all the time such and such user has violated our Fairplay policy and refund Elo points… I thought they have some sort of Anti cheat system. I did not know it relies on reports…. Ive mention this before on the redit ogs group Which I believe I left since everyone is more focus on defending cheating vs doing something about it… Weiqi and Chess are amazing one of a kind games, we really play against our skill, the more we play our skill increases and that is the most Precious Reward… When you waste your time playing people using AI, there is really no point and the game becomes completely obsolete. Like driving through an 8’ wall… Its not gonna happen… But hopefully someday we will get there. On Fox I see bans constantly. I can tell from my games I rarely come against Cheaters there… On OGS not so much… It seems to go unchecked. My Permanent 24k rating aline proves that. Its just sad. OGD is one of the 2 best Go server. Fox being the other one… OGS could be Our Fox, or Chess .com, but not like this….
Maybe there’s something that OGS can learn from Fox here. Communicating some numbers about cheaters being punished doesn’t seem like a bad idea, seeing that it makes an impression on honest players.
Don’t take it personally but I understand your criticism of OGS I believe they are trying I could tell you I catch them all the time even though it’s not about my game against Ramya. I think they are bored they want to rise to the highest level which is Dan+9 on this site. I really appreciate the OGS management team this site coordinates with people who want to broadcast the games outside to the computer I take my hat off to them. So I understand but I don’t accept all your criticism
I suspect that if it were to have an effect on behavior, it’s that publicly reporting punishments for cheaters would serve as a kind of warning to would-be offenders that they’re likely to suffer consequences … I.e., so don’t try that here on OGS.
you (black) played O6 after white P8
That group is impossible to save, there is not enough space to make 2 eyes
it was better idea to save group at the right instead by playing S9
but now, white can play S9 and kill it
In the game pointed out by square_defender, your opponent made many 10 point mistakes. So I doubt they were using AI. You lost, not because your opponent was using AI, but because you made bigger mistakes.
