Go Zendo

[martin3141]

Both of these are red:

I can’t blame you, after looking at so many diagrams ^^

Here’s the hint I thought of:

show hint

If a green Koan has at least one black stone,
adding or removing a white stone always changes its color
to red.

[martin3141]

This is a 7x7 board, so I won’t add the diagram to the post, but this would be red.

[shinuito]

Is it?

[martin3141]

… uh … I should go to sleep ^^ sorry about that.

[shinuito]

I mean you made me doubt myself anyway. It might just have been that number 7 that appeared with the image It’s not even image 7 but I didn’t clear the board properly when I edited it I guess.

[RubyMineshaft]

@shinuito

It’s not even image 7 but I didn’t clear the board properly when I edited

Did you right click and select copy or click download? I overlooked saving with the download button so it was only saving with the save and copy button. This should now be fixed, but copying or saving through right click probably wont save the board state or update the id.

[antonTobi]

Hi!

[shinuito]

@Sanonius

On a board with one black stone, how many white stones are hinreichend to turn the board green?

@martin3141

It depends on the placement of the black stone, so answering your question is difficult. However maybe this helps a bit:

Also I have prepared a major hint that doesn’t reveal too much and is interesting. If you want to hear it, just tell me.

So with the most recent hint it makes me think that some board positions with one black stones are green while some are red.

[shinuito]

@RubyMineshaft

Did you right click and select copy or click download? I overlooked saving with the download button so it was only saving with the save and copy button. This should now be fixed, but copying or saving through right click probably wont save the board state or update the id.

Yeah I just right clicked. Does that mean that that you can accidentally or otherwise overwrite positions?

[RubyMineshaft]

It won’t overwrite positions because it saves as a new object every time, it’ll just have the wrong number if there was one on the board already. I’ll try to figure out how to make the right click copy save as well.

[martin3141]

All of these are red.

some comments on the hint

The hint I gave you can be used to find a lot of red Koans by applying it to the Koans that have already been revealed. For example the last of these four Koans results from removing a white stone from the following Koan

… and rotating it.

[shinuito]

Oh the hint only mentions green koans… I see.

[RubyMineshaft]

@martin3141

This one got inverted.

Is this still read if the stones on the edge are white?

[martin3141]

Indeed

[shinuito]

The last hint makes the rule seem really complicated to me.

Question

If adding or removing any white stone to a green board (anywhere on the board) once there’s at least one black stone changes it to red, I don’t understand how it can use the concept of liberties. Adding (or removing) one stone either changes the liberties of some white groups or the black groups or it adds a new group with 2,3 or 4 liberties. This is very confusing to me.

[martin3141]

I agree on everything you wrote

[martin3141]

The rule itself is not complicated at all, and any go player can definetely understand it.

[shinuito]

These ones?

[antonTobi]

Does it matter which chains are connected to which?

Formalized: If I deleted every connection between a black stone and a white stone in the underlying graph (such that no two chains are adjacent, but the number of chains, the number of stones in each chain, and the liberties of each chain are the same), could this affect the rule?

[martin3141]

Both are red.

I encourage all participants to review the information you’ve gathered so far (for example I’ve collected some key information in the post with all the Koans) and try to guess the rule. I think you already unveiled a lot of very valuable information.