Some people even find that if you say “gg” you are being really disrespectful I have had games where opponents yell at me for saying gg and they continue to express themselves how the game wasn’t good. Its hard to know what everyone wants you to say so it makes saying anything even more meaningless since it runs the risk of being yelled at.
I suspect these are people who actually want to yell. So you should feel good about having given them the opportunity.
Well some positive feedback, it happens to have a nice little chat, even to go into a review after a gg.
I found a relevant old1 thread.
@Kosh: ‘Do you wish me a good game, or mean that it is a good game whether I want it or not; or that you feel good about this game or that it is a game to feel good about?’
(1 although that “old” thread was started almost a year after this one :P)
I do not buy this line of reasoning.
All cultures have traditionally had accepted standards for greeting, thank you etc even if you are in a bad mood. All the more reason to make an effort. It is mostly in modern America that civility is derided and considered passe. The internet also because of its anonymity also encourages sniping, tirades, insults and generally poor behaviour where community standards cannot enforce proper and respectful behaviour.
And I have heard the painful typing excuse before. It is amazing that the person with such severe arthritis can manage GO games on a phone or tablet or computer but ty Hello, Hi or gg suddenly the pain becomes debillitating.
So does it matter in the grand scheme of things perhaps not much in a ten minute game. But courtesy does make the world a bit brighter.
Politeness system differs by culture.
As example in China, players never wish a good game (after having played a few hundred real life games.) And they don’t say thank you or good bye when you leave a shop. Uses differ.
No doubt there are cultural differences. But despite differences there is far more commonality than differences. You say Chinese never wish a good game. That is quite an absolute and emphatic statement. Are you saying the Chinese meet to play GO and do not acknowledge the other player in any courteous way? And I take it you mean they do not show any courtesy when the game is over? My point was not that one has to say good game. But to acknowledge the opponent. The courtesy is in the acknowledging. And after the game to acknowledge the opponent also. It is simply common in the US to use good game. Also I do not believe most people on OGS who fail to greet/thank an opponent are Chinese. I do not have the data, but this is hardly a GO site with an overwhelming number of Chinese players.
Regardless I stand by my statement that courtesy makes the world a bit brighter. Or to put another way it greases the wheels of human interaction.
I point out that your way of seeing what is politeness is not universal. And even more a must be like that.
I just say that after having played many times in different places in China, players don’t wish a good game before starting. Between people who don’t know each other or few, it’s common to say nihao (hello) but not always if they know each other. And this is a bit outside of the game itself. One will just ask a “do you want to play?” and that’s it. I related my experience it’s not absolute or emphatic.
Aknowledgement: well really there this not needed like in the same situation in different part of our planet. I still have that shopping experience, if you greet or say goodbye to a shop seller here, they will be surprised or even embarrassed. Politeness vary even between America and let say Germany, you leave the office door open here, and carefully closed there. If you visit the house of some friends in another place, you will not knock the door but just wait until someone see you…
I find myself a bit sad that some players can be offended or even refuse to play if you don’t say hi gg at the beginning of a game. International politeness is not rigid like in your own country, it’s something we are still elaborating every day.
Is that a bit emphatic and absolute statement ? (Ok I am just returning the compliment)
On fox where there are mostly chinese and some korean players I rarely get any form of greeting.
I assume though that it is probably because they play 100s of games a day and when you play that many games a day I can see how saying a phrase or even different phrases can be a lot of effort despite other peoples opinions on excuses.
Honestly saying anything doesn’t have a lot of value if one person doesn’t care. Like I don’t actually care to get a greeting so when people say it to me it has no value to me. (as previously mentioned sometimes when I even give greetings people get upset at certain greetings) making it lose even more value since its having a negative effect on the other player.
So “MOST” of the time I just don’t give any greeting unless I know the other person or just feel like it for no reason at all.
So sticking to the topic “is gg becoming a meaningless phrase” I believe I mentioned this in the topic much earlier I have played since around 2007 and the way people greet and end the game has been the same since then for me. So it was “meaningless” already to “most” people I came across and I can’t say it has become more meaningless since for the most part it seems most people don’t care to do it or care to get it. (And, yes it has shown more in the asian community in my fox and tygem games) but I assume its just because they play more games so its more likely to come across that when playing there.
(But, have also had it here on OGS).
This is something I’m curious about!
I wish to expand it in a specific thread.
Well, it’s funny I remember on the basketball team when I was little we all had to say good game to the other team. Really little. If you want some meaning about it. I was the point guard. Once I stole the ball and drove it to the other end of the court for a lay up. People cheered that, I loved that. I also remember a time I passed the ball, and was like, “Take the shot you’re open!” and my friend took the shot and it went in. I am tall and muscular for a girl.
But anyway, it could be that people just don’t feel they have a lot to say to each other anyway. For the most part, we’re complete strangers who can’t even see each other.
I was raised with video games. I’m quite good at some of them. You don’t have to talk to the video game. A site like this can feel a lot like a video game, only it’s other people, but there are so many people, that there is always someone who’s looking to play. It’s really interesting.
But speech isn’t necessary, people love the game, not you per say.
I think I’ve gotten better at Go than I ever expected. Maybe because of my Russian heritage, we have a great respect for Chess, and I feel Go has the same societal place as Chess only it’s a completely different game. But people have a lot of respect for Go, and there’s a Go community, and I guess I should be aware of that. I’ve never been good at Chess. But for some reason I was very interested in Go. Maybe because I like video games and the first system was named Atari.
I’m aware of the Chess personality where people get so obsessed it’s all they think about. I never wanted that to be me but I feel it’s the same with Go.
But you know, you probably dislike me already.
The simple fact that you come and share your own experience is already something against disliking you.
Your approach is interesting at least to hear about, for players like me who had another go world based on real life interaction, go clubs…
I think it’s pretty hard and almost impossible to reach any intermediate level at go if you don’t meet any experienced player or get some good books or website. So by some kind of communication, being just playing or some piece of reviews or Life and death… Each time you benefit from the knowledge that others have accumulated before you. There is a deep difference in this with video games. Besides that go community is quite open to share and friendly in its biggest part.
Almost nothing will ask you to return the favor. The only thing I know is a little sign (the tilde) on another go server when you play too exclusively stronger players. In fact the favor is returned naturally for multiple reasons, like you progress yourself by your own teaching, you get this pleasure to guide and share what you learned yourself you want to learn more and for that you need to show what you learned and so on. Maybe because go is more an introspection on yourself, a way to learn some balance and auto control as a annihilation of your opponent.
Yeah, I’ve been playing at a Go club in person for a few years now. And I tried to read some books. And I got last place in a tournament. I’d say I’m intermediate.
I’m just trying to help you understand the frame of mind of internet go, as oppose to in person. It’s more like a video game. You turn on the machine, the machine is what you interact with. Not a person. There’s a puzzle to solve, the person doesn’t matter.
On a site like this, playing games can feel like alone time, even though it’s not. It’s a way to kill time.
I completely agree on that bias of internet go. I remember the time of yahoo games, one of the most wild go meeting online full of sandbaggers and I am just going to crush you mentality (and even cheaters). It’s nice that go servers now care more to try to police that to make newcomers and beginners more prone to stay.
Even if the internet go is biased like a video game, you still need to keep up with some go spirit in which you need to care about the moves of your opponent, to not be over-anything (aggressive,pretentious,jaleous,secure…) and that’s make it in some way difficult to just be like a video game. Or ok you just gonna go sandbag to make it possible.
I try not to sandbag. But I’m ranked automatically by the machine. I have to renew my membership to the AGA to be formally ranked.
I got up to 9 kyu and I was happy about that, I’m sadder when it goes down.
But I always try my best. Ganbatte! Sorry I watch anime. “Do your best” in Japanese. I try to be nice to people.
I try not to be mean to my video games either. They’ll make a robopocalypse one day if I do.
Well I like arguing and debate, but all much more for a general interest and ideas as against anyone.
And of course we check our rating. I could argue now that if you want more progress you ll have to accept sometimes to see your rating going down… But ok we go OT.
Hope best for your go adventures
Thanks for sharing! :D
It was interesting to read – I’ve never played much basketball myself.
It’s not the type of thing you associate with the board game crowd.
My dad was a huge work out guy-- first he was obsessed with baseball, then basketball. He once finished a marathon and he once cross country skied to work. Now that he’s older he’s into golf. Anyone can do that it’s for rich people and old people.
So he tried to get every kid into it too. It worked better for the girls than my brother, who had cerebral palsy. The doctor said he was born with half a brain. He wasn’t, he got through it, and was brilliant and the best person ever. I mean he had no problems except for his sight, he eventually didn’t need the crutches anymore. But he was more of a chess guy. He died mysteriously in New York right after he turned 20. Just after his birthday.
Believe it or not when I was little, I wanted to be a basketball player. I started playing as soon as I could hold a ball. It was great. Some of the girls were taller than me, so I felt like a short person. I miss it. Growing up I would say I’m average but now I’m 5 foot 8 so I’m short even for a female basketball player, but still tall for a girl. Really though, what helped me on the court was speed, endurance, long powerful legs, and strength.
But I started having a lot of seizures when I was 13, diagnosed with epilepsy. My dad got mad at me that I quit basketball though. But I figure, a hobby like Go is safer. Although actually I broke my arm while playing internet Go because of a seizure. I was just sitting at my computer. It took me a while to really find Go though. I played video games. I was pretty lost.
Because it seems you play go since not so long, may I ask you if you tried already to play it face to face in some go club?
I wonder, do most forumgoers have a Go club within easy range?