Language Learners' Library

True, but that is the estimation of the author of the article. And given what Ippokleides was doing, it was a good estimation I think.

One scholar, D. Ogden, (The Crooked Kings of Greece, London 1997) makes a point that this word here is also a pun on ὄρχεις ‘testicles’ because, as you said, he wore no undies. So it could also be heard as “you’ve made a balls up of your marriage”.

I love that pun, by the way. :smiley:
And because I am a silly person, it just dawned to me that if you pronounce the word correctly (like Pericles) and put a capital letter in front of it, the word Testicles sounds like a Greek name (Τεστικλής) χαχαχα

Good suggestion though hedonism is usually associated with a full spectrum of debauchery, while a person that gets drunk at a party and goes bananas is not really that versatile in his sources of pleasure. :wink:

Indeed quite difficult words for someone to recognise in a normal text. A better choice would have been satyrical, in its more literal meanings (being like a satyr in behaviour), but that word has been overused in a different meaning for so much that noone would recognise it if used in its original premise, methinks.

Case it point, to distinguish all that, if you have a satyrical collumn in a newspaper you are called “σατυρικός” in modern Greek. If you are behaving like a satyr, you are called “σάτυρος” directly, but that distinction of keeping the word satyr as a standalone epithet does not exist in English, to my best of knowledge.

2 Likes

@Sanonius I just watched this video, what do you think of it?

I was a bit puzzled by his comments on the elision of word-final m, which isn’t something I’ve ever read about before. What he says about the exact pronunciation of s, and the transformation of /c/ --> /g/ in certain positions, was also new to me.

1 Like

I haven’t watched it yet and am not gonna do so right before bedtime, but if Lucius has anything to say about it, it is sure well-informed.

1 Like

I’ve watched a bit more now. One thing I notice in Luke’s idiolect is that he nasalises almost everything, but that’s because he’s American, I guess. I’ll add more stuff when I watched the whole thing.

Elision of word-final m is indeed common and evident in poetry. Cicero argued against saying cum nobis because it sounds to close to cunno bis.

“Why is it stressed on the /ge/?” I feel this on a very personal level. Why is there so much stress on the /ge/?

I’ve read about the /s/ somewhere on wikipedia but couldn’t quite imagine how this was supposed to sound like and I don’t know the reasoning behind this reconstruction. But if Lucius says this has to be so, I believe him. The voiced c is new to me.

I very much enjoyed the video and I’d like to watch that show now. Either that or to try to become friends with Lucius, he seems a nice guy. I once bumped into him on the reddit as he answered a comment of mine. He’s also quite a singer and did “Fly me to the Moon” and other songs in Latin.

1 Like

Hey, watch this video. It’s about how it was hard to localize detective game because each language has its own quirks. And because words can imply different things in different languages it’s hard to leave clues that would work regardless of translation. And, for example, some methods of dying can be the same word in one language but completely different in another.

3 Likes

When NPC in games will use AI programs like GPT-3 to talk instead of manually written by real people dialogs, it will be impossible to translate.
Training neural network with different language would be too expensive and NPC will have other(different) manners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_structure)
System like Google Translate will be the only hope.

1 Like

in

Why English i, n and Japanese い, ん have nearly same shape and pronunciation?
They have completely separate and different origin…

4 Likes

What about these?

Japanese Lookalike
た (ta) t
て (te) T
1 Like

I think in most scripts, we can expect a “trunked” sign with a central “column”.

eg. English E, F, I, J, K, L, P, R, T; Japanese す, た,て, に, ま etc.

We can also expect a “round sign”.

eg. English C, D, G, O, U; Japanese う, お, な, ぬ, ね, の, ひ, ゆ etc.

And a “dotted” sign.

eg. English i, j; Japanese ら, む, ふ

And a “symmetrical” sign, with either horizontal or vertical symmetry, often imperfect:

A lot of English letters fall into this group: A, B, C, D, E, H, I, K, M, N, O, S, T, U, V, X, Y, Z; and some kana like い, く, こ, そ, つ, ひ, へ, り, ろ etc.

So, it doesn’t seem so surprising that there is some overlap in form.

2 Likes

yu
Russian yu(Ю) and Japanese yu(ゆ)
they work identically
ゆめ = юме
みゅ = мю
(same difference in sound when in the beginning of word and when after consonant

4 Likes

A colleague of mine did a lecture on different Runic alphabets. One of his conclusions is that there are only so many differents kinds of strokes you can have in a glyph to make it practicable to write by predominantly right-handed people.

2 Likes

I tried my hand at translating the Table of Contents of the Multilingual Go Book.


Enchiridion Circumvenínum Ab Inceptóre

Continentia

Volúmen I – Proemium

Quid est Circumvenium et quid oportet nós cúrámus? I

Régulae Elementáriae (calculós collocens / capiens / oculós / kó / énumerens) VI

  • Dignitátés Circumvenínum et lúdí handicapínum ad omnibus XV

Volúmen II – Formae

  • Affinitátés inter calculós duós XVIII

  • Affinitátés inter calculós numerósós XXIII

  • Ops et múrós XXIII

  • Ós tigris XXVI

  • Scála XXVIII

  • Articulus bambusína XXXI

  • Forma ménsína XXXII

  • Ós dracónis XXXIV

  • Hane / Hane duplex XXXV

  • Columna ferrária XXXVI

  • Triangulum vacuum XXXVI

  • Pincerés XXXVII

  • Glóssae XXXVIII

Volúmen III – Nós Lúdámus

Príncipium XXXIX

Lúdus medius VL

  • Levis et gravis L

  • Lúdus terminális LV

Volúmen IV – Jósekí et Fúsekí

Quae est jósekí et fúsekí? LXIII

  • Jósekí IV-IV mokús stéllína LXV

  • Jósekí III-III invásína LXVI

  • Jósekí keimína LXVIII

Jósekí III-IV mokús LXXXI

Fúsekí Kobajásidis LXXXIX

Fúsekí Sinica ICIII

San-Ren-Sei ICVII

Volúmen V – Impetens et múniens

De úniverse pugnens CI

Invásiónés CIII

Túgí CIX

Redigens CXIII

Impetens cum opem CXXIX

Volúmen VI – Vita et Mortem

De Vita et Mortem CILI

Formae vívae et mortuae

  • Formae lacúnárum III mokuum CILII

  • Formae lacúnárum IV mokuum CILIV

  • Formae lacúnárum V mokuum CILVI

  • Formae lacúnárum VI mokuum CILVII

  • Formae lacúnárum VII mokuum CILIX

Tesújí CL

Túmegó CLXII

  • L coetus CLXV

  • J coetus CLXVII

Volúmen VII – Themata Ulterióra

Disce ad ámittás CLXXV

De magis “Levis et Gravis”

De Sabákí

1 Like

Is this supposed to mean ‘Elementary rules: placing stones, capturing, eyes, ko, counting’ ? Sorry, you can’t use the active present participle in this context. What you want is a Gerundium! Behold, the nominalised verb. It’s easy:
amare ‘to love’
amandi ‘of loving’
ad amandum ‘to the loving’
amando ‘by loving’.

There’s also a verbalised adjective called Gerundivum by German grammarians but participium necessitatis by ancient grammarians. Like an adjective it takes all cases, numbers and genders, like a verb it takes objects and dependent infinitives. Just like other participles.
amandus – amanda – amandum
amandi – amandae – amandi
amando – amandae – amando
amandum – amandam – amandum
amando – amandá – amando
and so on, like you know it from other adjectives. That’s were we’ve got Carthago delenda est from, ‘Carthage is a to-be-destroyed one’.

The Latin mind confuses them sometimes. ad Germanos subiugandos obviously means ‘for the subjugation of the Germans’, but the nominalized verb takes the form of a verbalized adjective.

So my proposal for the Elementary rules is:
de calculís collocandís / de captatióne / de oculís / de kó / *de énumerátióne

3 Likes

I actually intended enumero to mean “score”.

2 Likes

仲邑堇 & 仲邑菫

When Chinese and Japanese use slightly different versions of Sumire sign just to confuse you and make it harder to look up :sob:

It’s not even obvious which version is whose, is it.

Sure, when I put it big right next to each other, it’s easy to see the difference but when you input Japanese version into Chinese website’s tiny search bar or other way around and can’t find anything, not so easy to spot a mistake.

4 Likes

That is awesome :smiley:

If you want to translate a page (or more) in latin, I can typeset it for you and send it in pdf form, if you would like to have it :slight_smile:


As my contribution in this post, I was thinking that since some of you understand and study Greek, maybe you would be interested to see/listen how the language sometimes evolves or incorporates other words in its everyday “street” usage. A great example is this dialogue from an old Greek movie :

The fellow with the crooked hat and the suit is playing an owner of a nightclub with mpouzoukia and he is coming to that address to receive payment for damages rendered by a relative of those people and some very interesting phrases appear that make the dialogue funny, along with the delivery of the lines and the inability of some of the others to understand what is being said, like:

  • 'μέρα instead of καλημέρα (0:04)
  • “δεν βλέπω το πρόσωπον” instead of “δεν βλέπω τον κύριο/άτομο” (0:13)
  • “βουτυράτος” (0:17), a weird word that means “buttery” but implies that someone is smooth/soft like butter or from good upbringing
  • “τσιριμπιμ τσιριμπομ” means “strong woman”, phrase of totally unknown origins that sounds like something a toddler would say
  • “καθόσον δεν συχνάζουν φιόγκοι” (0:31) with the word “φιόγκοι” alluding to bow-ties, implying that “high-class dorks” do not go to his club.
  • “η λυπημένη θλίψης” (0:34) which is, of course, the bill :sweat_smile:
  • “δουλεύεις με διπλό καρμπυλατερ” impressed by how well she seems to understand his idiomatic street language he makes the analogy of a car having two double pumper carburetors O_o
  • “είδες τι δυνατή που είναι στο σταυρόλεξο” - “did you see how strong she is at crosswords?” (1:03)
  • “κοντός;” “- Στην αρχή δεν ήτανε, ύστερα τον κοντύνανε” (1:20) which means
    “Was he short?” “-Not at first, but he got shortened later” meaning that he was beaten up and he “shrunk” figuretively
  • “Εσύ μη λες τίποτα μυρίζεις απήγανο” … απήγανος is said to be the herb used by Odysseus to counter Kirki’s spells and in general has now taken the meaning of something that is used to exorcise evil
  • “ε, τι θα κάνανε; θα κανελώνανε το ρυζόγαλο;” (1:41) “what would you expect them to do? Pour cinnamon on the ryzogalo” - ρυζόγαλο is a traditional candy, which is perfect with some cinnamon, so that phrase is heavily ironic in this context since it implies that no peaceful solution was possible.
  • “λέλεκας” (2:03) - quite the ancient word and it means the bird stork … here it means a “tall person”
  • “τουμπάνιασε” = he was turned into a drum = beaten up
  • “έδωσε κάτι άγριες που τους έκανε αλόγατα” (2:15) … αλόγατα is a weird form of the word άλογα which means horses … the whole phrase literally means that she beat them wildly and turned them into horses - weird sentence indeed
  • “σκονιάσανε” (2:20) = erratic form created by the word σκόνη which means dust. The word means that they “turned into dust” which here means that they were utterly defeated.
  • “βερεσέδια αστυνομικής υφής” - βερεσές is a turkish word which referes to “things that you owe” usually to some store and that you are going to pay later. The whole phrase means was that they had a criminal record, but the literal meaning is quite funny.
  • “δεν έχεις κανα αρμυρό ρε μισόμαγκα” (3:27) - something salty, meaning the small snacks accompanying drinks
  • “στο εντάξει” (3:39) he could have said “ok”, but that means “at ok” implying that “being ok” is a condition/situation. Very strange phrase.
  • “γραδάρισα” word of italian origin which originally means to measure something (I think) here turned into \verb and used as a native word.
  • “Γειαχαραντάν” (3:48) a word that sounds foreign but it is actually the phrase/greeting “γεια χαρά” which in itself an abreviation of the phrase “υγεία και χαρά” which means “(I wish) health and happiness (to you)” … noone knows what the “νταν/ntan” at the end is. Maybe it is there to make the rhyme, because te full “street greeting” is “Γειαχαραντάν και τα κουκιά μπαγλάν” of which the additional words mean that “the beans are banging” which standalone is insane as a phrase, if you do not know what a κομπολόι is … other believe that the “beans” that are banging according to the phrase, are the ones in our trousers, trying to make the person using the phrase to have more “weight”, but opinions on the matter vary.
2 Likes

How about translating OGS to Latin?

4 Likes

I feel ashamed to admit that I thought Enchiridion was a word created by the makers of Adventure Time…

4 Likes

by the way that word is also a good pun to insult someone …
εγχειρίδιο = something that fits in your hand. A handbook - χέρι means hand
ενχειρίδιο = fabricated word that is pronounced exactly the same, but switches the main word from hand to something that is terrible - χείρον means “the worst”
ενχoιρίδιο = another fabricated word that is pronounced exactly the same, but switches the main word with pig - χοίρος means pig

NOTE: The bolded letters should have been γ as well, but since the words are fabricated for puns, when used they are written in that “inproper” form to indicate that there is indeed deviation from the standard correct word in meaning.

Similar, and one of my favorite puns, are the words “δίστιχο” and “δύστυχο” which sound exactly the same but mean totally different things.
Δίστιχο means “a poem with two verses”
Δύστυχο means “unfortunate, misfortunate, sad”
You can imagine how fun interchanging those can be … :upside_down_face:

1 Like