I’m sure analysis can’t give you more than 1 stone of power. If you are 2 ranks higher than someone, you will win anyway, even if they use analysis. So just become stronger, don’t blame analysis of opponents. If someone always uses analysis, then rank of their account is correct - no problem again. Rank is never clear anyway, its always ±1 based on did you drink coffee or not.
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Exactly
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I think this misses the point. From the same reasoning, if someone likes to use AI from time to time to help in difficult situations, this is also factored into their ranks and should not bother me. Yet it would, and I guess it would bother most of us, because it violates the expected fair play rules.
So the point is not whether a given behavior is factored into the ranks, but whether we consider it as “fair”, i.e. whether it should be part of how a regular game of Go is played. I think you could argue that analysis is commonly seen as “fair” within the culture of Go correspondence games, however it is clearly not the case for live games (as evidenced by the fact that you don’t do it in real-life game, you don’t do it online on any other Go server, and you don’t do it during events hosted in OGS).
My position is that the defaults settings should reflect the commonly understood “fair” practice of Go live games (and it is up to those who want to deviate from the usual norm to change the settings).
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Let’s compromise
Make it on for even months.
Off for odd months.
So we’ll learn more respect for different opinions.
And please don’t debate that the reverse would be better
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AI is very different thing. It gives you alien ideas, that you never would invent yourself.
But with analysis all ideas are YOURS, its just like if you had more time / move. But very few people use full available time on their moves because its boring, they often play move in 5 seconds when 50 seconds is available. Most people use analysis as thing of comfort(to not get tired) , - not to cheat as hard as possible.
I don’t care if analysis will be off as default, but I’m afraid it will later lead to it’s complete disappearance - when most people will democratically ignore opinions of less people that are still a lot of people.
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again, exactly
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I don’t think this changes the argument though. If you’re playing against this player you wouldn’t know whether these moves are his ideas or not, you wouldn’t know if he was using AI, and anyway “its factored into the rank”.
Again, my point is that it would bother you (and me and most others) it’s because it goes against the accepted fair-play rules for live go games. Analysis goes against those rules in a different way (instead of feeding you new moves it allows you to find moves you wouldn’t have found otherwise) but does it nonetheless.
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If you don’t consider it fair just always disable analysis in custom games that you create. Automatch maybe should have such option as default or there will not be enough people - for analysis they can always create custom.
If we agree that people with analysis don’t significantly affect rank system, then 2 people who both OK with analysis should be allowed to play ranked game. Who are we to stop them? Why shouldn’t they have fun if it has nothing to do with our games?
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I’m fine with that. I’m advocating having it off as a default (instead of on) because I think this matches the expected norm for lives games, but you would still be able to toggle it on in automatch (or say you’re indifferent about it, like with the ruleset for example, so that you can match with anybody).
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It’s not. 
I don’t understand why it bothers you that someone else might be using analysis… just because of “fair play”
Just play the game and have fun.
For sure if there’s some “prestige” at stake then have it turned off - there are plenty of tournaments I’m playing that have it off and plenty where it is on.
I’ll let you into a terrible secret… I have been known in a game where analysis is turned off to open up an editor and play out some moves. But it’s such a pain in the backside to do, it’s very infrequent that I do that.
Shock, horror, I’m a cheater!
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please don’t complicate our discussion.
Well, if analysis always will be disabled in ranked, there will be more cheaters like you. Better to let people create ranked games with analysis legally - so their opponents are aware of that in most cases.
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In a LIVE game??? 
How could you do that?
I don’t have enough time to think by myself, forget about opening an editor and redraw a game! 
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not live
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it’s essentially what it is about… I’d say
Well, maybe we could start by clearly separating live and correspondence games.
This should help, I think.
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Need to take care of internet quality. Hard work.
I don’t play live - it’s too stressful for me.
Of the comparatively few live games I’ve played, really, I can’t see how it can be easy / effective to use any form of analysis / AI - just why would someone do it and if they do then good for them - I would never had known!
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Back to the day, I always had a joseki page open to study the joseki options as a way to learn them… lol
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One “Hikaru no go” character plays using a joseki handbook. 
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