Maybe somebody needs to learn to lose. What helped me - I had to learn to desperately want to win. All this “you play to enjoy the game”, “it doesn’t matter if you lose”, “everybody wins their first x games” just made me not really trying. Cause what for? When I concentrated on winning - playing became much more stressful and painful, but it made me really trying to do my best and so I began to progress much quicker.
The same now. When I’m not concentrating on my will to win I play much worse/
Yeah, there sure is a lot of conflicting advice for new players: “Play loads of games” “No, do tsumego” “What you need to do is study tesuji” “Make sure you play the best move you can think of, take your time” “No, play blitz, so you can learn good habits”
I think the best thing you can do is figure out which approach you like best, or which fits into your schedule best, and work from there. It certainly can’t harm you much
cloudedthoughtz, awesome read. I wish I had read this 3 months ago.
My fist attempt to play this game was maybe 10+ years ago. I spent about 4-5 months on this and never made it past 15k in KGS (this is like 17K here?) it was no fun any more. I was sick of losing and winning gave me no joy because usually the opponent just resigned or gave up - started to make idiotic moves etc. I got sick of this nerdy temper tantrum shait that comes with Go and dropped the whole thing. Until I ran into it again about 3-4 moths ago.
LOL, I got that same pseudo-zen bull shit from all those self-anointed Go masters in KGS back then.
No, the moment you face you opponent (tennis, pool, etc), there is no mutual goal - goal is to beat your opponent. Same goal is not a mutual goal.
Only one I can come up with right now is golf. This is one of the very few games where everyone has the same goal - lose as little as possible to the golf course. You opponents are fairways, bunkers, greens etc. What makes this a mutual goal is you walk in same direction with your opponent and you cant disturb each other at all. In many cases you actually help each other.
Note the word ‘mindset’ It’s just how you view the game you are playing yourself. I agree that playing Go is about finding winning moves and conquering territory, and thus winning.
However I do not play it in that manner because I get too caught up in actually trying to win each game. Yes, it makes me happy when I win but I do not mind losing at all. I have completely and successfully let go of that mentality. Instead I play to learn, to have a fun game for my and for my opponent; not to crush the soul out of them. I do not fret about giving opponents undo’s and such, why would I?
This is what I meant with that statement ‘mutual goal mindset’. In short: while the obvious goal of Go is conquering more territory than your opponent, I feel I have a lot more fun seeing the game as a cooperative and learning effort. It makes me want to play, even if I am on a losing streak.
Thanks for starting a great thread. Much of what has been said here is consistent with mainstream thinking in the philosophy of sport. The fundamental mental orientation cutting across all sports and games typically involves either extrinsic or intrinsic motivation. Extrinsic is when one gets satisfaction from external things (ranks, victories, awards, etc.). Intrinsic comes from internal satisfactions (improvement, a sense of play, delight in the art of a game or sport, etc.). While both can lead to success, intrinsic is generally better for long-term sustainment and is crucial for anyone facing performance barriers (the very young, very old, or disabled).
My own perspective is this. I learned the game 50 years ago and gradually drifted away from it due to a lack of players and resources in the West. It has been a joy to rediscover it and find the wonderful online resources that now exist. I can truly say I love the game for itself. Lose a game? Go run a 50-mile race and tell me about the pain of a loss. Nerves? Give an hour-long recital from memory and tell me about nerves. Don’t get me wrong; as a newbie all over again, I am sympathetic to the problems of beginners, but if one doesn’t enjoy the game, one really should do something else—climb a mountain, read a book. As the I Ching says, “No blame.”
Just read this thread and found many interesting thoughts.
One addition: I have encountered this in many areas (most of the time more frequently than in go) from sports to online gaming, that people treat having fun and showing effort/trying hard/trying to win as mutually exclusive. For me in these things true enjoyment comes with true effort. Trying does not mean that there cant be fun nor that a loss would be painful, it is just part of the game.
That thought to the end… there is no problem with trying and having fun. On the other hand, if trying is part of the game then not trying would strictly mean you are not playing the game… well… they are just thoughts after all
It’s just how you view the game you are playing yourself. I agree that playing Go is about finding winning moves and conquering territory, and thus winning.
