Hi, I’ll my two cent in. I think undo’s are apart of the games, We are all amateurs and playing fun and hoping that our skills will improve. Instead of no undo’s game we have an opposition of limits of undo’s, to like 3 or 5 per player per game.
I don’t like undo’s generally although I will say that the ‘misclick’ does happen occasionally. I’d say I’ve had one or two in the past year.
I think that there are two possible options I might add:
- Require an explanation when asking for an undo. Unless it is a misclick I generally will not allow, especially in ranked games. I suppose someone can be dishonest if they want, but most aren’t.
- Have a ‘delayed submit’ option (5 seconds or so) in which you can click ‘undo’ before the move is actually submitted.
That sounds OK for unranked games, but a ranked game is not about “I’ll see what this looks like if I place a stone here, my opponent won’t mind”
Wow, you are in a different way of thinking than me. I have never had an opponent ask for a second undo, and I almost certainly would say “no, please be more careful with your move selection”.
This is slightly off the original topic but I see value in playing both ways.
With a relaxed approach to undoes players can gloss over the more trivial mistakes and gain some appreciation of Go played at a higher level of ability.
At some point however, I think it’s essential to create a clear line between the thought process of deciding what to do and acting upon it. If a person always plays with undoes in mind it is likely to limit their progress.
I remain unopposed to the original idea,
I just wouldn’t want to use it myself, preferring the flexibility of being able to say yea or nay.
I’ve watched several games, all 9x9, in which a player asked for more than one undo—cheating, I think.
I think having that option would make people think it is acceptable to ask for undo in a normal game(even when it is not a misclick). I think not every culture believe that it is a impolite thing to do so adding that option would give some people the wrong impression.
Misclick in correspondence does happen once in a while(maybe once a year) when I play on mobile on plulic transit, there is one time that accidentally clicked again on the border with my other finger after making my move and submitted that wrong move.
I honestly don’t see how adding an option to say “I don’t think that undoes are OK” would create more of an impression that they are OK.
But you might be right - maybe it would give some people the wrong impression.
I think it would be worth it, to allow more other people to explicitly say “I don’t want to think about undoes”.
Today, some people even write “no undoes” in the game description, I’ve seen that on the Play page.
Honestly, I think it is a bit rude outside of a tournament setting to say “no undo will be considered under any circumstance”
People need to understand that if they ask for an undo, that their opponent is well within their rights to say no without giving a reason… but, to outlaw the act of asking… seems excessive to me.
Who’s talking about outlawing the act of asking?
This proposal is to enable people to say, at the beginning of a game (before you even accept it) “I want a game with no undoes”).
You don’t have to accept games with this option set.
When I misclick, I look at it as a challenge – how can I make the stone useful in some way? Usually I can’t (especially if I’m trying to wedge), but it takes me outside my comfort zone, which is good. And if someone else wants to undo? No big deal, if they either made a mistake or misclicked, a few more seconds and they would have played what they wanted anyway. So if a suitable feature is added, I would have no problem playing a game with undoes or without undoes, it would make no difference to me.
Perhaps this is similar to the touch rule in chess, instead of having to move the piece you touch, you have to play the place you touch (click)?
Yeah - I think it’s just like that. The key thing being a seamless (not awkward) way to agree which rule you’re playing up front, before it happens.
I haven’t heard of this one… I’ve only ever played with the release rule (you can touch as many pieces as you want but once you let go of one in a new, legal position, that is your move)
I’ve played a few shogi servers, but usually the rule seems to be that you lose as soon as you make an illegal move. (for beginners this can be quite annoying because in addition to that, the undo button becomes unavailable as well, since the game has been concluded – ahum… experience… )
wow… I haven’t played a lot online… but my understanding was that an illegal move didn’t cost you the game, it was simply unplayable, as in it didn’t happen; try again lol
never played shogi but played a lot of chess before i found go
The Japanese are strict in their chess, I guess
Unnecessary qualifier was unnecessary?
Well, I didn’t feel just ‘chess’ would be universally understood and
to my defense shogi couldn’t really be called Somalian or something, right? Or is the qualifier you conflict with ‘chess’ (which wouldn’t even be completely unreasonable in my opinion ) ?
I was trying to say that you could have easily left it at “the Japanese are strict, I guess” and that specifying that that also applied to chess was unnecessary haha sorry if I wasn’t very clear
FWIW, I always thought “touch move” was a real chess rule, it’s how we’ve always played in my house, and I’m an Aussie!