OGS Study Group - Board 14


Thought I’d give one of these a try. Made a few guesses to think what I’d play and added the odd comment. 25ish minutes went by fairly quick. More so looking forward to the other reviews :slight_smile:

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I was surprised to see how my points are different from yours: F6 vs. F7, O3 vs. L3, R6 vs. R3.
I completely missed the ladder aji.

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Here’s mine from a few days ago:



For some reason I fixated entirely on the bottom right. While the left side is massive, it can still be reduced, as shown in the actual game. I wonder what the Leela lines are…

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without conviction…

curious to see the other answers now :stuck_out_tongue:

edit : garkh… I missed both B6 and the use of the ladder breaker for reduction

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The LZ variations are out of this world. With such an open position, slight variations lead to entirely different games. LZ itself seems to have a hard time figuring out the best move, probably in part because of the ladder.

My understanding of the LZ analysis:

  • C2 was a slack move that gave white a losing position (~40% win).
  • LZ’s favorite move is G9, which combines with G7 and the ladder aji. It takes quite some analysis time for this move to surface.
  • White might want to do the H4-H3 exchange first to prepare for the moyo reduction. If not, later on black might choose to sacrifice the F3 stone. H4 works well with G7.
  • In response, black simply protects the territory.
  • B5 is a large sente move for white.
  • LZ also likes the lower right (Q3 or R3) but that leads to a slightly lower win rate.

Considering that white’s best move leads to a lost game, and that the position is very open, it could make sense for a human player to try a more aggressive path.

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more comments

Looking back I think I should have considered r3 and r4. This study group is helping me realize I don’t search wide enough for candidates and miss a lot of good moves because of that.

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Board 8 is up. Anyone at any level is welcome to share their analysis of the position.


I’ll start this one. No peeking until afterwards. :wink:

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4 reviews so far

I found a good sequence starting with R14. However this is only LZ’s second choice, because there’s apparently an intolerable white weakness I overlooked in the top left.
As for the pro move at C6, it’s low on LZ’s list…


many options here that dont look particularly bad imo.


strengthening the corner group before doing anything else seems unavoidable though. maybe im being too careful?

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other than from comparing notes with you guys, which is awesome! :smiley:, i feel i benefit most from the time limit involved.
there seems to be a fine line for me, where on the one side i get lost in local variations and spend loads of time pointlessly and on the other i switch to tenuki mode too quickly, neglecting local options, like shape moves or attchments.
its not easy to find the right balance.

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Review and notes


The top left felt too weak to me to play away. There’s so many cuts, and so many potential weaknesses. I have trouble reading them all out, and I’m very hesitant to call it good and play elsewhere. Pros tend to do that a lot, and I feel like at least part of it is due to their vastly superior reading skills. However, computer analysis pretty consistently says that their tenukis in such situations are overplays. Perhaps it’s partially a bluffing tactic: if Shin Jinseo thinks he can defend his bad shape, surely he must have read out a sequence that lets him do so. That works until Ke Jie calls his bluff and beats him 2-0 :slight_smile:

Glad to hear that Leela agrees that a move up there is needed, even if the computer move is an option I had discarded as “potentially too weak.” I’m curious to look and see what she thought of my other options…


oops, would I have overconsidered danger on top left? …

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Board 9 is up. Anyone at any level is welcome to share their analysis of the position.

PS: I’m also interested in any meta feedback you might have. Are you happy with the board positions I’ve been choosing? The constraints and format of this study group? Anything you’d like to see done better?


Yes! I was actually wondering how you do it, as obviously you need to make the decision without looking at the whole game. Proof that there’s food for thought, the pro’s choice is usually different from Leela Zero’s choice… both being of course different from my own choice :wink:


here is mine :

I like it. there are some more local fighting, some more global view. (althought, it’s not always easy to see which one it is :slight_smile:
But in any case, it’s always open to lots of intesresting variations (and various interpretations depending who’s reviewing)

Also, I like the time limit.as it is

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My review


I think I really struggle to find the “pro” moves in situations like this, since I can’t really read well enough to figure out running fights. Even on a game I’ve gone over before, there’s too much complexity for me to really know what the “best” way to proceed is.

Meta feedback-wise, I like the variation! The more middlegame-ish ones are hard for me, and often frustrating since some of the lines seem to be so much deeper than what I’m capable of reading. However, that’s also what I need to work most on. No pain no gain!

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