Please add Stone-Counting to OGS: teach go to beginners!

“Malicious” is your thought, not mine. If there is no consequence for attempting an invasion, more people will attempt it. Practical, not malicious.

Lots of beginners, as well as other players, don’t know that.

I literally still attempt invasions when I see aji. I see nothing wrong with this.

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If person is indeed malicious 1 point penalty might not stop him.

Edit:
I read a wrong comment, which was not a part of your original message. I think what I wrote here can be ignored. Can’t delete it, lol.

Who said there was? Now you are making up implications.

I am clearly not reading your comments the way you are intending them. I apologize.

Thank you. Apology accepted.

After we just achieved the possibility of rated draws? Over my dead New Zealandian body. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I don’t know with whom you think you are agreeing.

I understated importance of longterm memory to have a discussion and not just reactionary comments to single messages.

We could have an interesting discussion about education sciences and their implications for teaching go, but we can’t even agree that the act of counting physical stones is easier than the act of counting concepts like territory and area.

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I get that but same time the final position is harder to get (or accept) under a territory scoring.

Now when players understand and agree that nothing will change after a area final position, for which it is way easier to come to a mutual agreement, then it’s easy to count what someone has if staying focused on this goal. With a little bit of organization (count empty then add stones). Destroying territories shapes has no significance as long you are careful to not make the area bigger.

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I’m not experienced at all with the scoring process on a physical board under Chinese rules, so please forgive me if my questions seem ignorant.

Do you mean that you can keep the territory count visibly available somehow when counting the stones, so the territory count can still be quickly recounted/verified after counting the stones?

Well what i mean first and most important is that the two players may go further on exploring what a sure area is, with no restriction like if you play but he doesn’t answer and such. I mean it’s good for our teachers ego to point out this kind of details but i think that what counts is their own agreement that all is surely played and done.

From that stage you can propose to count who has most. Very basic is filling all with stones so then you count them. No doubt, all clear but a bit crude.

So then you can say that empty =stones, same so if you are carefull to not change the delimited global area you can first count some empty holes in it then add the remaining stones. You can add or remove at your convenience (for geometric holes).
The thing is simply to count points in the area.
If you counted 40 emptyness then you pile up the remaining stones let say 34 you group 3x10 and 4 and say it’s 74 for that color. So lose as less as 169/2 on a 13x13

IMHO there is nothing that complicated, just not the cultural way we have in use.
It’s nice in the territories scoring to keep the boundaries but i think it’s more important to have a firm agreement to have reach a final position with area scoring. Now all this is not really a big deal.

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Similar arguments have been made before. Here is my response that I used previously.

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I like the proposal of adding stone scoring as an available option.

Here’s the neat thing about adding an option for another rule set: if you don’t like it, then simply avoid using it, and it won’t affect you at all.

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The reverse problem exists:

Japanese/Korean rules encourage players to leave unfinished boundaries or boundaries full of defects to be exploited.

Stalling is quite a complex matter. Stronger don’t do it because they don’t want to be ridiculous, they don’t want to show they couldn’t read something. At lower levels things are less clear and you could prefer to try the impossible. That’s something sometimes inherited from playing too much with some bots (especially in the past) where the bots were still hoping in some unsensical failures by insisting. I met that “no way to progress” attitude with players at 8k level. But then i find hard to judge and deny the right to play.

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My post wasn’t about trolling, as I thought I made clear in my response to Clossius.