Or, if you drag “1” around, it will automatically count up, instead of placing a “1” everywhere (or perhaps only do that as long as shift is pressed down or something).
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I’d have to go back and check the other thread to see who said what again but
I agree
That would be cool
Wow I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you were the one who asked earlier for clarification regarding whether someone on the same IP address could have access to the nerfed SE even if the players had it disabled, until I scrolled up just now to reference it 
I suppose that still hasn’t gotten a direct answer yet, and now I feel a bit silly 
My whole response just now was under the assumption that, as you had hoped, people on the same IP have the same access that the players do (i.e., if the players have no SE at all, nobody on the same IP can use any kind of SE) - but since we still haven’t gotten a direct answer, I guess it’s rather unreasonable for me to make that assumption. If it’s not the case, then I don’t disagree with what you’re saying at all.
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Suggestion:
Why not deal with the estimator as with handicap/Komi? You could have a draw-down menu when creating a game where people CHOOSE what they want (standard: no estimator).
Then - from the perspective of the player accepting an invitation - you can (as with weird Komi) add a comment to the game information (“Warning: This ranked game uses precise KataGo score estimator”).
So in summary: I think the standard should be no estimator for all games ranked/unranked. BUT why not give players the option?
PS: I think this is both conservative (standard = no estimator like standard = normal komi) and also gives people maximum freedom (e.g. if you want to play ranked but with perfect score transparency, you can. But you don’t trick anyone because of the warning).
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My bad. For some reason I read “someone from community” and thought 3rd party right away. Of course it would have to be implemented on OGS first.
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Go is such a minority game. The odds of two people under the same IP play it is close to zero, at least in the west. So it is a practical good idea to block it.
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I’d support this, but only if the other player has the option to resume the game and play it out. (And both players could still just agree to score like normal, of course) I play mostly NZD Rules, so unless I’m dealing with a troll, just playing it out it’s the best solution.
Not that sure. Students, family’s members for ex may share the same IP. Or even computers in a go club…
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Key Value Pairs?
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You mean, a family of cheaters. So sad.
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To celebrate all the wonderful tools OGS created, and try wisely to keep under control while listening to the crowd, I propose we organize once a year the unlimited OGS day.
That day, all the players will have access to everything: AI, SE, analysis tools, help from your sensei, unusual size of goban…
To make it not too boring, automatch, ladders and tournaments setting will be determined by luck for each parameter. The only prefixed parameter will be no handicap.
So you can have AI no SE analysis tool absolute death 8mn for ex. Or no AI SE…
All games will be rated. At the end of the day a gigantic poll will determine if we keep or not the new ratings issued by this very special day.
Let’s party in a giant carnival!
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It sounds like April fools day 
Maybe unfair to people who just played ordinary (in the sense of every other day of the year) games and then might have the changes undone
Ah we are talking about implementation of a extraordinary event, a traditional day. Like Christmas or New year day, it’s once in a year for the health of the community. You can’t satisfy everyone.
Sounds a wonderful idea to have a tournament of AI, live games with AI allowed. Lets see, with the time pressure, how exactly AI can help the games. Or maybe set a limit of how many times AI can be used per game.
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Not only AI, all possible. Let’s experiment different combos!
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. The new KataGo Score Estimator will not be made available in any form to players while playing a game, nor to spectators coming from the same IP address (so one can’t simply open another browser/private tab to have access to it). For the time being we will still allow players to use the old score estimator when analysis hasn’t been disabled, just like it’s always been.
Looking forward, I think the longer term answer might be to replace the old score estimator with a proper scoring tool for use in analysis and review mode, one that makes it quick for the user to mark out territory and the status of stones, but is “dumb” in the sense that it doesn’t try and figure out life and death too hard. Some balance between convenience and “too smart” will have to be struck there, we’ll work that out when the time comes.
Rational:
At the time of this update the Nerf poll received 962 votes from 762 people. Because the poll allowed people to select more than one response, I did some additional queries against the database to try and tease out what to do by separating out the players that wanted some form of score estimation from those that wanted no score estimator ever, from those that selected a mixture of both or “I don’t care”.
| 45% | Want at least one of the score estimator options but did not click "Do not ever allow" or "I don't care" |
|---|---|
| 36% | Selected "Do not ever allow" but not any other options |
| 19% | Selected "I don't care" and/or "Do not ever allow" and one of the other options |
This would seem to indicate that the majority of people do want some form of score estimator. However the next poll with 554 unique voters and votes conveys a slightly contradictory message:
| 50% | Want the score estimator disabled by default |
|---|---|
| 42% | Want a nerfed score estimator enabled by default |
| 8% | didn't care |
So people want some form of a score estimator, they just want it disabled by default, which somewhat implies that they don’t actually want it in their games perhaps.
The other trend I noticed reading through comments is that several folks, including myself, changed their opinion from “Sure whatever if people want it let them use it” to “KataGo’s estimation is too good for this, even nerfed”, where the reverse was not true that I witnessed.
I think what this tells me is we shouldn’t have any form of katago score estimation for players. However, there is certainly a large fraction of people that do like and use a score estimator sometimes for doing some quick counting that sort of stuff, so for that reason I wanted to keep what we had for them, at least until I can make something better-but-not-too-good for those of us who don’t like counting. There are a lot of problems with the old score estimator, namely it’s a source of confusion for beginners which I don’t like, so I will want to eventually try and figure out something better, but for now I think this is probably the right balance: Old score estimator during play when it’s enabled, just like it’s always been, new AI score estimator for kibitzers and end of game scoring, and eventually make some better tooling to replace the need for the old score estimator.
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Yay good outcome.
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I do appreciate all time and effort to get that SE working on OGS in good condition. Great job!
Great idea although I wouldn’t mind to have the new SE in review mode (game finished)
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It’s like that now, you can use the new AI SE in review mode, after a game is concluded, or by spectators. I wasn’t exactly clear on that… but basically, no new AI SE in any form for players while playing a game, but after the game is over, or during a review or by non-local spectators, use the new one. When I get around to implementing the proper scoring tool, the idea would be you can use the scoring tool in game without much if any smarts, and outside a game the scoring tool will interact well with the AI SE for some added smarts when desired.
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