Random Opening Generator

[shinuito]

@Sadaharu

If only there was a way for the TD to “set the board” in the tournaments.

Idea about how to run custom tournaments

Pushing the boundaries is the goal, right?? But in seriousness, I actually thought forked games would be one of the simpler ideas to implement. Tournament creation API already closely resembles the challenge API, so I think one would just need to copy over an initial_state field in the same way that we do with time_control_parameters and rules.

[martin3141]

Why are these games displayed in this group?

AFAIK the games are part of a tournament in another group: Mirror Go on 16x16🪞

[jlt]

All games between two members of a group are always shown in the group, even if the games were created in another group.

[martin3141]

@jlt

All games between two members of a group are always shown in the group, even if the games were created in another group.

Oh interesting

@Sadaharu

Also now we need to figure out how to create a tournament with a fixed random opening… Haha

Can the players fork a fixed position (like from a demo board) and start from there?

[Sadaharu]

@martin3141

Can the players fork a fixed position (like from a demo board) and start from there?

I think that can only be done for normal games but not tournaments

[martin3141]

But we don’t need OGS’ tournament feature in order to organise a tournament.

[Atorrante]

@jlt

I don’t think it’s possible to fork a game in a tournament.

@Sadaharu

I think that can only be done for normal games but not tournaments

Okay, I see two thinks, but is this certain?

@Feijoa, I seem to remember that you are the moderator who specialised in tournaments. Can you look into this (forking games in a tournament) and give the final verdict?

True,

@martin3141

we don’t need OGS’ tournament feature

but if there is such a feature, it would make creating a random go tournament so much easier.

[Feijoa]

I’m not in a position to give a final verdict on any OGS features! Mostly I just observe what I can.

But anyway I’ve never heard of such a feature on OGS and even the OpenGotha software that can be somehow linked to tournaments does not seem to have preset starting positions.

[Samraku]

Chess has “Thematic Tournaments” which are tournaments from a given opening, so there is precedent for something like this

[Sadaharu]

I wanted to do a trial run but I realised tournament games are ranked by default?

[Samraku]

I guess this technically is computer assistance for the first 16 moves, but I also feel it follows the spirit of the law in regards to fair play, maybe we can get a special exemption to play this ranked?

[BHydden]

If allan turing is allowed to be ranked I’m sure this is fine

[Sadaharu]

No I’m not talking about the computer assistance for the first 16 moves, I’m just saying that having the players play ranked games just for a trial run of the tournament seems too much

For now I’m thinking of the following:

1. TD or all players decide by vote on the type of starting position
2. Both players input the first x number of moves via conditional moves
3. Both players continue playing normally

TD will observe the games and if the game starts differently from the decided position, then the game will be marked as void. (Does the TD have the power to do so?)

I think communication will be the key for this kind of tournament… Is there a way for the TD to send a mass notification to all the participants? Otherwise, we may have to create an OGF thread to communicate.

[Tschej]

To be honest, this seems a bit unconvenient for me. If I had to choose between a tournamen where I vote a position and have to place every stone with my opponent one by one in corres mode or just asking in a forum topic if anyone wants to play and just fork a random position, Id defenitely do the latter.

Or, if it has to be a tornament, Id still prefer one organized in a forum topic in this case.

[Samraku]

I mean, the voting would presumably take place in this forum thread. Most of the inconvenience is on the people organizing the tournament; just playing through the preset position is not really an obstacle

[jlt]

@Sadaharu

then the game will be marked as void. (Does the TD have the power to do so?)

AFAIK the TD cannot mark a game as void but can add or remove points to a participant as long as the tournament is still in progress.

[Sadaharu]

@Tschej

have to place every stone with my opponent one by one in corres mode

That’s where the conditional move function comes in handy.

However, I just realized one issue with conditional move is that we only have the board position without the sequence. So probably the TD have to come up with the sequence and ask the players to follow.

[Samraku]

or just agree on some canonical order like left to right top to bottom (or top to bottom right to left, given the origins of Go) to play the moves in

[jlt]

@Sadaharu

So probably the TD have to come up with the sequence and ask the players to follow.

Hence my proposition

Random Opening Generator

Should we choose the same opening for all games in the tournament? If so, the tournament director can choose an opening, e.g. D13 E13 K5 C15 D2 S8 E5 C3 G8 L3 C13 Q13 C17 S4 O14 P17 Black plays the first move, enters conditional moves, and White plays according to the sequence. The opening may be changed at each round.

(i.e., the TD has to indicate the sequence with board coordinates).

[martin3141]

@Sadaharu

However, I just realized one issue with conditional move is that we only have the board position without the sequence.

Anton tobis tool generates sequences though, you can see it by “download sgf”.