Strategic curriculum for self-study of Go

Definitely relative. But I have spoken to beginners in the 25-30k range, having played less than 5 games and knowing go terminology far better than I do, because they had read that much already. Encouraging these people to put away the books and start playing does make sense I believe.

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are you talking about current OGS graph or about rank old system gave you? And how many tsumego?

30 with current, definitely less than 100 with old. Not much tsumego, but lots of game reviews.

so, I tell you: current graph makes no sense for distant past. Past got recalculated in strange way.
It gives me SDK early too while I actually was 20+kyu and looking at those games now they still look clearly 20+kyu.

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I had the same experience with @BHydden on DGS whose ranking is less fickle and has not changed its way of calculating. All I did was read twice the “Learn to play Go” series by Janice Kim and declared myself a “12k” on DGS. No tsumego, other than the few basic ones that were contained in the book series.
As the graph shows, 30 games later I was at 8k and at that time I had begun watching a bit of Sibicky’s early DDK classes and a few Dwyrin basics videos. By 80 games (and a couple of more books like the aforementioned “Direction of play”) I was at 5k and that’s around where I stopped studying and reading.

Each person has their own style. Other people like books, others like videos, others prefer tutoring.
I learn by reading books and losing games.
For example I still have not solved any tsumego worth mentioning, considering my rank. I’ve only solved a few free ones on an Android app that provided 6 tsumego per day. I prefer to lose the groups and resign, even on ranked games. It seems more fun to me and more educative/memorable, since the problems appear naturally within the game and I can learn from it in a more wholesome way (not to mention avoiding the narrow focus of the tsumego who can create a habit in a beginner of not looking at the whole board)

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Well I think is is a compelete waste of time and effort to read Go books (apart from something explaining the basic rules) before you are 20 Kyo.

Again, we should be more open to the idea that other people are learning or are getting into things for different reasons and via different ways. E.g. I also like astrophotography, but it is a hobby that is arguably harder to get into than Go and extremely much more expensive (the most basic EQ + tracking rig + DSL + telescope can cost you 1200 dollars), so most people - before deciding to invest serious time and money to a very difficult endeavor - do the reasonable thing and read a lot about it, research about the knowledge needed, look into the equipment and watch videos about the process and the training involved.

That is also time and effort and quite a lot of it. You are just not taking any photos.
Same thing applies with Go books.
Reading them takes a lot of time and effort. If that is what people enjoy about Go, can we at least think twice before discouraging them?

It is not as if Go in our countries is thriving or something and we can afford to be picky about how other people will enjoy the game.

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I don’t want to discourage people, but personally I am a strong fan of learn by doing so in the beginning I think it is much more beneficial to learn by playing with someone who is more experienced than you especially if you have the luxury of playing in-person at a Go club (that was how I learned Go some 20 years ago) or with an enthusiastic friend (that is how I try to get my friends to play Go). Beyond learning the rules and some basic principles, I really don’t see the point of Go books intended for 30-20 kyo since what you learn from those you will learn much better by playing a stronger but sympathetic opponent.

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I will totally agree with you because that’s how I learned chess and basketball and a lot of other stuff. School and education systems are based on the premise of tutoring and can, indeed, be the most effective method, if it is available.

However:

This is, as you have said, a luxury for a lot of us.
I’ve owned a Go board for years now and I’ve never managed to play a single game on it. I only use it for playing out the moves I read in books, so I can feel and understand them. Noone in a 200km radius plays Go and I am seriously doubting if this board will ever see a game on it in my lifetime.

I’d love to do what I did with chess when I was a kid. To play one game per day and lose every time to a better opponent ( I lost thousands of games in a row while growing up).
But there is noone here to do that because:

… in order to be motivated to find that kind of opponent, a lot of people need to feel that they have the basic knowledge in order to learn and, let’s not forget, to have fun.

How likely do you think would it be for someone to stand outside a basketball court and invite people to come in and join in for 30 minutes to learn the game?
Even as famous as basketball is, the sport ain’t easy and most people have a hard time bouncing the ball initially (heck, even some pros struggle with that, if they are using their off-hand). Shooting and scoring is highly unlikely and dribbling is out of the question. The few people who would take up the offer would usually quit then and there. This is why such sports are taken up when people are kids or teenagers, because there is a steep learning curve for which adults usually have no patience for, whereas kids will be more open to tackle and have fun.

Now do that with Go which is harder, not outdoors, much less likely to have any early lucky success and initially it is making you feel baffled with the huge board that you have no idea where to play on, why you’d play there and “where’s the fun in that anyway?”.

If a video or anime or a TV series or a book could answer those very important questions (especially the last one) for them and make them motivated to perserve through the initial bafflement and failure and find the fun then they will have discovered a hobby for a lifetime.

None of us here will be pros.
A few of us might get to 1 dan.
All of us where once 30-20 kyu.

So, yes, books targeted at 30-20kyu are probably the most important books in the literature of this game, because they are the kind of books that help people break the barrier to enter the game and find enough fun and joy and interest in it, to stick with the game. :slight_smile:

As far as I am concerned, I watched Hikaru no Go almost 20 years ago and I thought “hey, this looks fun”, but there was no way to learn how to really play back then. So, many years later, online orders were finally a thing, and I remembered that I wanted to try Go and I bought a book, Janice Kim’s “Learn to play Go” and volume 1 is for total beginners and 30-20 kyu. That book was fun and well-written and captured the spirit of the game, so here I am.

If there was a Go Club, I would have gone there.
You are correct on that.
But there just wasn’t any and that is the reality for a lot of people that would like to learn the game.

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The reason why I don’t see any point in Go books intended for 30-20 kyo is the fact that Go books (at least in English) are usually quite expensive and there are enough website with free information and interactive Go problems in the range of 30-20 kyo so I think it is a bit of a waste of money to buy a Go book for that range.

Like you i recommend playing more as reading at low levels and that was my own experience.

But soon I found that go books are not intended for low levels either. I missed some more crucial basic information, which i was searching for.

One exception is “go for beginners” from Iwamoto Kaoru which is aimed especially to lower level, a gem.