Try to live challenge?

I recently get idea for special mod of game try to live. I used in club to play try to live with one group and if you live you will win, like on picture


For example on tengen can be make ponuki for hardest challenge, white will play first.
Or some shape on board

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cf. The Shape Game. There’s also a version where the board starts empty, and each player takes it in turn to either add a black stone anywhere they wish, or undertake to play Black and kill all White attempts to live. The game proper begins when one player claims Black and the other plays the first move, attempting to live as White.

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Or your thread called Kill-All Go :slight_smile: (slightly different stone placement on the sides.

and other ones

Edit: @yebellz sure :slight_smile:

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Maybe this should be under #general-go-discussion instead of development (also prevents this topic from being auto-closed).

Setting up a game like this is already possible with custom placement handicap stones or forking from a demo board.

@shinuito, add this one (When is 3-3 alive?) to your list

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Haha! :laughing: This is basically what I did last night in a 25 stone handicap game:

Hard work! :flushed:

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I’d rather have the side hoshi on the third line, in a “round variant” like this:

image

Also, isn’t this only 24? In a 25 stone game you’d have an extra stone to put on tengen.

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I played that with an OGS friend yesterday (this variant: The Nine Handicap Challenge at Sensei's Library).

Do you know any strategies for winning that ? (on both sides)

We are both DDK and we found it very difficult to live anywhere else than the corner very close to 3-3.

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If Black A, White B; if Black B, White A. Then you should be able to live. If Black doesn’t defend the corners then you can enter them and live there.

To win as Black is much more complex and, as the article says, theoretically impossible.

Another variant on this theme.

And against footsweeps:

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Oh yeah! Apparently I can’t count :roll_eyes: :rofl:

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Similar to a club variant, then instead of giving 9 stones you say ok this time I take them and you try to live. A classic.

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This one is terrifying

In theory from my weak memory (maybe in secret chronicle of handicap go?) Between 2 players of same strength, black get 140 (or 120?) and white 20 with a Japanese 9 stones. So not really supposed to die.

Another interesting balance (same book?) is 60% defense 40% attack for black to play. (Not trying to kill ofc) That means that you have to be careful to not consider that a 100% attack strategy later, after this variant and back to a normal 9 hp game, is the best way to win, and 100% defense is not good too (see same book). Usually the excess of defense is more the problem, 40% is still a considerable part often too neglected and asking black to take white and kill can improve the spirit of the weaker player in his handicap games.
In years 90’s in one of the french summer camp, I gave deep night lectures for DDK (around 2-3am). I had a dictionary of handicap go so one time we studied a bit deeply how to resist some white intimidations with some kind of complex side josekis. I was aware that it was too much but they were really hypnotized. Next day, I got “complains” from other teachers about what did I teach them last night, they play so brave now!

I saw 9k losing against Dan in that club variant but I put it more on a psychologic side as the real (forgotten) abilities at 9k.

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Here are pros playing this variant:

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The setup in the first and second video has a different corner setup in the upper right and lower left.

But the third video seems to have the same setup in the four corners.

I’ll probably watch them, they look interesting, really dramatic intro music

Sensei’s has a shape game / kill-all thread under the title Entire Board Territory Problem.

In it, SWeasley presents this diagram

image

and says

I’ve heard that 21 stones is enough for killing every [white group] if the player is about the same skill. (If White survives, by what I’ve heard, then White can give Black … 4 stones.)

There are also some other crazy formations suggested.

image

27

image

29

image

36

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