Upcoming changes to the Play page and general time settings

Great changes. The new quick match page looks brilliant on mobile! I didn’t think I’d like only queuing for one board size, but it really opened the door to simplify that page a lot!

This is a good explanation. It’ll definitely ruffle some feathers on old hats, but I look forward to seeing the response from new users. Let’s see if it lands or not.

3 Likes

Wrong chat?

“Balancing the game” before it starts is something that sets Go apart from many other games. The term for that is “handicap”. I agree that the term has or might have a negative connotation. But one could argue the term “difficulty balancing” does exactly the same. The thing is, “rank balancing” (as I would call it) is not about making a game more easy or difficult, but fair.

5 Likes

Handicap = one word, three syllables
Difficulty Balancing = two words. seven syllables

George Carlin, call your office.

I wonder what people will think about 30s+3s. I’ve played 60s+3s lately and I like it, but sometimes it’s really hard to keep up with the pace and quite a few games end early by timeout.

But it’s nice to have it as a quick match option, although I would have preferred New Zealand rules :wink: (or maybe not, people are just not used to it, me included).

3 Likes

First impressions:

  • that’s still a lot of buttons and words and numbers, in fact more buttons than now.
  • precise yet seemingly arbitrary numbers like 28-49 minutes seem silly. Minutes are usually rounded to the nearest 5 unless you are actually measuring something real. When I read those it makes me think “oh really? Why 49 and not 48?” which is a mental distraction from parsing the UI to take action and click something to get a game.
  • why have Fischer and byo-yomi? Be bold, ditch one. Simplify.
  • “difficulty balancing” eugh, also the label is too horizontally far from the switch. Is game speed the label for the flexible switch at top, or a title for the 6 buttons?
  • avoid handicap wording problem entirely by removing the switch, it’s always on for quick matches. Be bold. Simplify.
  • does the board picture add value or waste space?
14 Likes

No, this is an issue that appears on the Play page. So imo the right chat.

then Custom games should be made more clearly seen, not as little button №2 in top right corner
or handicap haters would just leave OGS

1 Like

I already told that custom and automatch should be united
both should just create challenges that are possible to accept.
if 2 identical challenges created, they accept each other.
huge buttons create challenges with standard settings only, there would be high probability that 2 identical challenges are created that way. Also there is probability that someone will accept, which decreases time of wait.
but also you can create challenge with any settings, they would be more likely to be accepted by someone than paired.

In current auto-match I dislike that its not seen how it works and how many people are wait now. In united custom and auto it would be seen. Both win.

4 Likes

I mean, it’s kind of a tradition at this point. I try to simplify, and I end up adding more! That said, in the current system the complexity is hidden behind a somewhat obscure settings modal with three tabs to page through, so I think removing that streamlines things and in some regards simplifies things a bit.

They’re measured 50th and 90th percentile values from the past many years worth of games with those settings, rounded to the minute. For 19x19 live games rounding to 5 minutes would be fine but 9x9 blitz it’s too course I think.

In Revisiting Automatch Time Settings: Data-Backed Proposal for New Automatch Settings on OGS I proposed just going with Byo-Yomi but there was a surprising amount of interest and good reasons to offer Fischer, however omitting Byo-Yomi seems like it’d be quite the affront to a good number of folks, so while I agree having one system would be ideal from a UI/UX standpoint, not sure if we can get away with it just yet. At least Canadian is gone though!

Quite tempting. Even games are 4x more common than handicap games though.

I think to a beginner it anchors their understanding about what they’re doing a bit, so I think it adds value. It also fills a space that would be otherwise awkward, balancing out the time controls on the right.

8 Likes

That might be better indeed.

3 Likes

Invert it:
Lopsided game: No/Yes (default No)

:slight_smile:

9 Likes

So I had a look at lichess, they do have even more timing options, but they keep it brief with just a single word:

(I wondered why there was an onion on top of it, only later realising it is a stylised knight!)

8 Likes

its possible to control difficulty by choosing rank of opponent or by choosing number of handicap stones
Both things my mind can call as “Difficulty Balancing”
“rank balancing” I would use for choosing of rank only

5 Likes

It is easier for me to say, than for you to do and deal with the ire :wink: . But my perspective is that OGS made a historical mistake in having handicap off by default for a decade, leading to lots of the people who learnt Go and its cultural norms on OGS during that time not liking handicap because it was not normal. Perhaps some of those could be persuaded to accept handicap, and other not, in automatch with no choice. But in my mind, better that, than the next decade of beginners who learn Go on OGS not liking handicap.

12 Likes

Aww, you are hiding the good stuff :sob::sob::sob:

Could we at least have a stable URL to go directly to the custom games tab? You know, like

https://online-go.com/play/withthecoolkids

6 Likes

It could also just be that people don’t like the idea of being given extra stones to make the game even. Even beginners who’ve never heard of OGS, sometimes just want to play even games to see what it’s all about.

Other players just don’t want to play with handicap because it changes the game a fair bit. It doesn’t really in one sense, but in another sense the opening of the game is very different in handicap vs non-handicap and that’s something people don’t like.

Some would argue that maybe reverse komi would be better for that, but the player taking White still won’t play a “normal” opening when they have to catch up 20 points or 40 points which can’t be removed from the opponent, whereas at least the star point stones can be captured potentially :stuck_out_tongue:

4 Likes

I do not see reason why increasing number of handicap games should be a goal.
We should not create discrimination. Those who like handicap should be able to find game fast and those who like even games should be able to find game fast.

1 Like

I never knew OGS had such a big impact on the modern history of Go :joy:

1 Like

Even if handicap was always on, the players that don’t like it can still avoid it by limiting the rank of the opponent.

8 Likes