What would you do if your opponent forgot to press the clock after playing?

General Go Discussion
21

I’ve never had
clock was not pressed fully and the player’s time still runs
, ​ so I don’t know what I’d do there, but like richyfourtytwo, I’ve had
opponent forgot to press the clock after playing
several times in competitive chess - again like richyfourtytwo,
no prize money - and for that I chose ​ ​ ​ none of the above ​ :

Stop playing without saying anything and try to use up more of my opponent’s time.
​
​
(I figured - and I think the other people in my club also figured -
that the opponent forgetting the clock was likely a one-time thing,
rather than something the opponent would keep doing if I kept playing.)

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22

Example for the case of sports: If you have a clear shot at the goal but the goalkeeper suddenly slips and falls (or maybe the rainwater got into his eye… you get what I mean), do you shoot or do you not shoot?

If you are playing tennis and the opponent’s spectacles suddenly drop, do you still hit his weak spot?

It’s quite high for professional tournaments and even some amateur tournaments.
For the case of Ing Cup, the winner will get 400k USD.

23

I tell them, or rather i just point my finger at the clock without saying anything.

Though sometimes i don’t even notice until i then play my own move and hit the button on the clock that is already pressed down xD

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24

Well sadly for them, I knew players who seemed to have a chronic problem with clock

Myself from old memory I was so focused that I forgot to press multiple times during the same game.

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25

Is it legal to place stone during time of opponent?

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26

Wow. Interesting comments.
Im not sure if there is a written fair play rule in Go. In many sports there is, some professionals apply them more, some less.

Imo, this clearly falls under fair play.
You can be a jerk as much as you want if you do (mind) sports imo. I did the same when I did physical sports. Being touchy, staring, celebrating when I win a ball- just being a jerk. Ofc no insults or harming ppl. Its no problem, imo, to be a totally different person in competition than your usual self. (In Go there is other stuff to show dominance ofc. Im too much a noob to know whats ok and what not. Maybe staring is ok or slamming the stones on the board). Some may not like it but its part of the spirit of sports.

However, you still (should) want to win because you think youre better and abusing a fail-clock-hit has nothing to do with winning fair.
So: Git gud. Hehe.

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27

I think it’s not under your reponsability (if your opponent has played ofc)

28

image

does it mean “I would not place any stone and would just wait for win by timeout”?

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29

There are quite some etiquette coming mostly from japanese culture, and which became shared outside Japan because their players were essential in promoting go around the world.

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30

I saw this a few time as a kind of warning. Player just stop playing waiting his opponent to press the clock

31

Yes it means you intentionally drag the time to user up more of the opponent’s time maybe even until the opponent times out

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32

There are no strict rules saying you can’t play when your opponent’s clock is running. In fact it is done frequently. For example you can play the next move so fast the opponent hasn’t even pressed his clock yet.

One thing you can’t do is to make the move before the opponent has made his. That will lead to a lose by default.

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33

So can the opponent still press his clock?
If you move before he presses the clock time.

34

Can but you will just press the clock back immediately so sometimes they will just give up pressing and just continue playing.

Of course the proper etiquette is to wait for the opponent to press his clock before playing, but sometimes you can do this kind of thing to annoy the opponent lol. There are many things done outside the board that contribute to the result of the game. Another example is to purposely place the stones very loudly to “scare” the opponent or make it look like you are confident.

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35

Yep although I haven’t see that much happening in EU tournaments so this is maybe more in the japanese go culture?

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36

This is still in the game, so you play normally. :slight_smile:

Football is a sport that is hard to find equipment failures or neutral issues since there are a lot of referees and the time never stops. You can get a lot of fair play cases like wrong penalties awarded and the player intentiionally shoting it out or a player scoring with their hand and going to the referee and having the goal cancelled (that actually happened in the Greek Cup finals when the score was 0-0)

Basketball on the other hand can have such examples since the time starts and stops constantly.
This is a famous one:

The shot-clock stopped, “noone noticed” and the coach that complained about it even got a technical foul on top. Most of the complaints are in English, so you will see what happens.

Yeah, but second place still gets a lot of money, right? It is not 400k or bust, so the actual money on the line is less than that, correct?
Anyway, as I said earlier anything and everyone has a price. If a ton of money is on the line and you need that money, then obviously the chances of pretending that you saw nothing increase exponentially. :slight_smile:

37

Really? I did see some of the western players doing that in international tournaments, though yeah the chances of a Japanese player doing it is quite high. There was once when a Korean player was quite annoyed by it because his Japanese opponent kept placing so loudly lol. The Korean lost in the end.

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38

I have mixed feelings with this. In the tournaments I were, I always told my opponent to hit the clock when noticed was not hitted, and probably, will continue doing it, BUT, as some examples readed here, clock is part of the game and responsability of each player. And happened to me too when I was to hit the clock, the clock was not on my side because my opponent forgot to hit, and I didn’t noticed.

Well, this exists, it’s called “confirm movement”

I agree with this, BUT here, tournament rules say, once a stone touch the board, you can’t remove it, then, you can’t change the movement, then, makes no sense the clock to continue running because you can’t do anything to change the board.

Said that, in some games my opponent wake up and went out, and some times I wait for him to come back and put my stone, and/or without prior question, point to the stone I put. The same way I allowed to some opponents to “undo” in tournament, but all of this is because I decided to do it, I was in the mood, not because I felt I had to do it, and I don’t want to be judged if I don’t do it. If I compete, I compete with all the words, and the clock, is part of the game and competition, in the same way, it’s totally fair, if your opponente is hard in time, take advantage of your time advantage to put pressure on it. “Clock is a stone”

If you find a pocket in the floor, in Spain you HAVE by law to take the pocket and go to the police, of course, if you take the money, nobody can accuse you to take the money, but your example is not valid because your acctuation can be taken as robbery, is against the law, while there are no rule forcing me to warn my opponent about the clock, is not cheating. BTW, in all the tournaments I assisted, one of the rules is that. Each player is exclusively responsible of the clock in their turn and make sure the turn passes. No allegation will take in consideration if something happens related to that. Obviously, can be a failing clock, but there are referees to call for that.

On the other side, is not the same either because you are not “playing” with that other person and competing between. The example itself is not good IMHO, anyway I understand completly what you mean, just wanted to point about the example.

I understand and I agree, that on a mind game, take advantage about something not related to the mind, is not something to be proud of it at all, the issue here, is, the clock is not part of the game of go itself, but is part of the competition, in the same way, you can make mistakes due to not manage correctly the timing of your clock.

I had to check the video in other platforms because is not clear what happens, and based in comments I think the problem was the ball bouncing first in the floor after hiting in the racket, am I right? It’s a shame what this player did, but, this is not only bad sportmanship, it’s cheating at all and breaking the rules. Like when in football a player throws himself to the ground trying to cheat the referee to get a penalty in favour. It’s being deliberate to try to cheat the referee. Is not the same

I do it, and will continue warning my opponent about the clock, in the same way I would like to be warned about if happens to me, but, in competition, all that is not breaking the rules, is valid to win IMHO, and If I forgot to hit the clock, and my opponent don’t warns me, it’s my fault.

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39

Ι didn’t want to go to such details - considering that laws are different in each country - but even if you do follow the law and return whatever you found, here you are entitled to 10% of the findings (incentive for your good deed), so there is still gain involved even if you change choice C to the totally legal “I’ll pick the wallet up, return it and demand 10%” :slight_smile:

In any case, that example was not meant to me 100% the same, but only used to depict the underlying bad intention that “doing nothing” can potentially have, once there is gain involved in that idleness.

This is a good point.
It boils down to why you are playing the game and this is the crux of the matter and choice.
If you play to win at all costs or to win a big prize, then it makes more sense to say nothing.
If you play to have fun and enjoy the game, then it makes more sense to say something.

on that tennis example

The player didn’t cheat per se. The referee make the mistake and the player keeps saying “if the referee says this or that, I will comply, but I saw nothing”. A drop for a fake penalty is a much more direct action and clear cheating. Here it is just bad sportsmanship. And the guy is a pro, so he most probably knows what happened, but feigns ignorance to gain a profit (exactly like the case with the timer - he just does nothing). A similar case with Federer points that out even to us laymen, that there are clear indications of what happens, other than actively watching the ball.

What I find amazing is that at no point the other player doesn’t offer to replay the round. Here you are, on the court, with another professional athlete which tells you that “thing X happened”, you claim that you didn’t see it (oook), but you decide to side with the referee, instead of your colleague, just because the situation is in your favour?

It is funny to me because, by comparison, even the local “street basketball rules” have much more respect for the players. The “rule” says “if you ask for a foul, it is a foul and that’s it” and here a pro goes “meh, I saw nothing huehuehue”? Bad form.

40

Exactly because there is nothing like 10% here. And yeah, I understood this way.

Well. it depends on the situation. I play because I love the game, to improve, have fun, on my daily basics, weekly meetings, playing on internet and so on I don’t care at all about the result. When I compete, I play to improve, but I play to win. Is not about “at all costs”. I don’t want to be judged because a fault on my opponent responsabilities.

Again, I get your point, and I’m on the side of warn my opponent and I do it. Seriously, no one here plays go for the money or will get any interesting reward for it, maybe only a 0.5% or less is in that situation, BUT just to be clear, I don’t have to, is not my responsability.

It’s like other discussion I saw in the forum about to be able to remove the undo button in your matches. I don’t want to be disturbed about to undo. In the same way I never ask for undo, I don’t want for my opponent to ask for it. Is his responsability to make sure about his movement before, and if it fails, is his fault in the same way I fail too, but accept it. Based on that, I don’t want to be on a situation where I have to give explanations about why I accepted or not the undo request. I don’t think is fair to change the responsability of the result of a match because the other player faults, “making” me guilty, it’s part of the competitionn and when somebody competes, competes to win, it’s how it works.

I know the clock situation is different, but is on a similar vein. On a tournament you can’t move a stone once placed. Opponent don’t push the clock, and notices a self atari and asks to put the stone in other place (this happens in 2 seconds). This is a mistake, happened to opponents several times, and I offered to change, but now I’m in the situation to decide if I allow my opponent to fix, and If I don’t do it, then I’m a bad person and bad sportmanship?. No, sorry, again, is a competition, I don’t want to be in situations that are not my responsability. You get free win if your opponent don’t appears, is how it works. The same can be reversed, you failed to put the stone, is your fault to ask to change/accept to change your movement, you have to accept your mistake and move on.

I know we play for fun, but it’s a tournament match, and I play and I expect full focus from my opponent and responsibility from him/her to give me a good match.

As said, I don’t think is fair, under competition circunstances to move the responsabilities to the player who is doing correctly.

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