'Why are we still SDK?" -- some thoughts

In books:

  • Davis, “Tesuji”
  • Graded go problems for dan players vol 2
  • Get strong at tesuji (Bozulich)
  • Fujisawa’s tesuji dictionary.
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If you want hot takes:

From where, then, comes the difference between those who make steady progress and those who do not? That question can be answered in one word: fundamentals. When a person knows lots of joseki, practices life-and-death problems, and plays a great deal, but still makes no progress, it is because his fundamentals are all wrong. ‘Fundamentals’ should be interpreted, not as something narrow like joseki, but in a broad sense, as one’s whole approach to the game. Think not of some flimsy structure that will collapse in a breeze, but of a tall skyscraper that gives itself to the wind, with only its foundation planted firmly in the ground.

That’s in “The Breakthrough to Shodan”. I’m kind of tempted to buy the book, I saw it was recently added to SmartGo books, and I quite like SmartGo books in general :slight_smile:

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You said you were doing everything listed on the page.

To quote the page, though:

Tesuji problems: Try to choose problems that are at the right level. This means ones that are actually pretty easy for you, solvable in 30 seconds or so. Remember though that solving a problem doesn’t mean guessing the right move. It means proving the right move to a level of certainty such that you could play it in a game.

I have that book. I was actually reading that paragraph only a couple of days ago ^^

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Here I am, watching sdk’s complaining about still being sdk’s while i’m sitting here thinking about why i’m still a ddk

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On the topic of both tesuji and books, I enjoyed Sakata Eio’s Tesuji and Anti-Suji of Go. I read it on some site or other that I’ve now forgotten, but I should probably buy it in print at some point.

All that I remember from the book is that I was constantly surprised, in a good way, The book showed me possiblities that I had no idea existed.

I am not complaining. Just trying to learn more but I know enough to enjoy the game, and to be able to play against a variety of opponents, so it’s perfectly fine if I don’t improve further.

I lied, alright, now you will fail me the class, prof?

tesuji and tsumego, I think we naturally practice them in games, so in a way, i consider myself continue to study them. Very much like street fight, learn from the real world. :smiley:

I’m often reminded of the comment by Mark in his series Go Lessons in Broad Strokes, that “many people on the left side of the (rank) graph [ie. the lower half] think that they are on the right.”

The centre point of the OGS new-ranks graph is something like 6k.

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Alright. This is an interesting thread full of many anecdotes and methods of study. I have something unique to contribute, since what I have in mind has only been lightly hinted here or there.

The frame of this discussion throughout the thread is within the context of “I want to reach shodan.” And contained within is part of the blockage. In a word, it is ego. Most people are driven and motivated to reach shodan out of selfishness. And this is only natural. But selfishly striving for shodan is full of psychological traps and pitfalls. Emotions enter play and cloud judgement, and make us impatient. When we win, we are elated, and when we lose, we are discouraged, and these feelings interfere. Being satisfied with a victory is almost as bad as being discouraged by a loss. Satisfaction with a win will keep you motivated and hungry to play again, but it will only set you up for greater discouragement by the inevitable loss in the future. It is better to drop the ego-based motivation in order to avoid personal satisfaction and self-pitying discouragement.

But then, you may well ask, “if not out of my own motivation for myself, how will I ever reach shodan? What will drive me to play at all?”

So we would do well to look for higher and more noble reasons beyond our own ego-based satisfaction as the motive to reach shodan. This is a riddle that I’m still working on myself, but I’ll try to offer what I think so far…

A greater motive than one’s ego is to play for the elevation and dignity of humanity as a whole. There are many ways to interpret this, such as appreciating and displaying the beauty of the game. To be clear, I’m not talking about humanity producing the singular most skilled individual that we collectively can. There is something contributed to humanity as a whole by each individual’s struggle and effort, but I’m having trouble articulating it. Maybe you can help me.

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Sarcastic response would be, “Yep, because everyone who got to shodan and higher rank lost their ego and attachments to winning. 9-dan pros are literally Buddhas.”

This was more or less what I didn’t want to get sucked into discussing :slight_smile:

This might be a bit much.

Toning it down a bit, one can play not to win or lose but to:

  • enjoy oneself (although one might say that could take out the competitive edge)
  • to just play your best win or lose (I think some people are like this, they don’t care the result as long as they couldn’t play any better than they did)
  • to just keep getting better (books and Tsumego and all might play a role in this sure but a game against another player close in rating/skill is the real test)
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Well, I don’t debate with liberals, aka, hypocrites. :smiley:

Because there are few Go schools in the west offering well-established Go lessons to children and teenagers. Or, the Go market in the west isn’t big enough.

In interesting idea. And one that makes me think that everyone’s motivation is as unique as themselves. Some will get to shodan by “egotistical” drivers and others by “selfless” motivations and yet others for a myriad of other reasons.

Some will never make it to shodan despite these more or less grand motivations, usually for perfectly prosaic reasons of having studies, jobs, kids, other things to do with their time and life.

My question is would getting to shodan make you any happier than being the rank you are? I suspect that getting to shodan will result in very similar existential fretting. “I’m OGS 1d but struggle against EGF 1d so I’m not a “proper” 1d” “I’m stuck at 1d but want to get to 3d, 5d, 7d…” Etc etc.

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Although it was not a motivation at the time for me to get to dan level, one big advantage of it I have found is it allows you to understand and appreciate the games of pros more, and thus I can follow the pro go scene as a fan better.

Of course another advantage of getting stronger is you can teach more people and teach them more correctly. Once it gets harder to get stronger yourself you can derive a lot of pleasure and satisfaction from helping others improve.

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(Since I can’t stay out even if it doesn’t really concern me…)

IMHO, and based on how I approach reaching a certain milestone in general (I can’t really speak for the SDK-> Shodan journey):

Other than the “wow, Dan sparkly eyes”, what does “Dan player” mean to you?

Is it someone who can read tsumego in the corners by sheer practice? Is it someone who knows this or that joseki? Is it someone who has studied every pro game after AlphaGo? etc.
It doesn’t have to be one thing and it doesn’t have to be something everyone agrees on; the important thing is what this milestone represents for me.

Approaching it that way gives me a roadmap; what I consider distinguishes a milestone is what I want to achieve.

And this has 4 probable outcomes:

  • I do the thing I deduced is the characteristic of the milestone (if more than one, one at a time) and reach the milestone.
  • I do the thing but don’t reach the milestone (yet). So it’s probably not (only) that, and I search for the next thing that will be bring me closer. I still have what I learned, though, and it helps me reach my goal anyway.
  • I don’t do the thing, because I found out I can’t.
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  • I don’t do the thing, because I found out I don’t like it, I balanced the goal against grinding with something I don’t enjoy and decided this goal isn’t for me. Rerouting is always an option.

So, my unsolicited advice would be to look into what I think I’m lacking compared to the level I want to be (as I mentioned, not in a “what everyone will agree on means to be X” but on “how I would feel satisfied as X”) and work towards that.

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Why are we still …

Well, I don’t aim at becoming a dan player because (apart from a lack of talent) I suspect that being a dan would stress me.

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Just want to enjoy the game. Rank is just a number that doesn’t mean much.

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Wise. Since I participate this thread, I am .3 rank farther away from my goal. :joy:

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What Aumpa was saying, I believe, is that intrinsic motivation is better than extrinsic motivation in the long run. As I understand it, many studies have verified this in sports and education. Intrinsic motivation generally leads to better performance and longer-lasting participation.

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