@GreenAsJade do you think something like this would be reasonable, changing [2k] into [2k?] after x months since previous ranked game?
1 Like
All these fascistic proposals to dictate how and when people play go will achieve nothing more than to drive some open-air sandbaggers to start sandbagging in much more insidious ways, which the mods don’t and in many cases can’t prevent. It would be better if all sandbaggers played unranked.
1 Like
Frankly, I’m not sure you have enough experience dealing with sandbaggers to make that prediction.
You would be wrong. But we both know you are just doing your usual personal trolling.
Hey no need for personal attacks!
Pot calling the kettle black.
I don’t understand how this simplistic and illogical reasoning proved so popular. It conflates two separate things which, whilst related, do not always pair up in the obvious way, namely:
- is this single game/challenge right now ranked or unranked?
- does the opponent play lots of ranked games and therefore their rank is an accurate representation of their strength, or do they play very few ranked games and therefore their rank could be wildly inaccurate.
The game being ranked does not imply they play lots of ranked games and have an accurate rank, likewise the game being unranked does not imply they play lots of unranked and have an inaccurate rank. This “3k” with just a few ranked games at 3k and then 100 of wins and really a 5d usually makes an unranked game offer and we are supposed to infer the 3k is unreliable from that, but then the next minute he makes a ranked game offer and suddenly, despite no change in his game history, that 3k suddenly becomes reliable and we are are now entitled to complain that it is not? (Of course if they play lots of ranked games their rank will eventually become reliable, unless of course they throw won games to sandbag). Or a player with lots of ranked games and a reliable rank is feeling a bit tired/ill/experimenting-with-some-new-move and wants to play an unranked game against someone the same strength as them (or maybe a stone or two weaker) is also a perfectly reasonable thing to happen, and doesn’t suddenly change the past and make their rank unreliable, or invalidate their desire to play someone of similar strength.
2 Likes
e) Display username+rank+winning stats instead of just username+rank.
For example “Sadbanger [5k], 534W 3L” instead of “Sadbanger [5k]”.
4 Likes
What I’m not really clear on is how we can expect there to be
- an ability to play without being forced to have your power measured (“unranked games”),
while at the same time
- having a goal to play with people of known power (“same power”)
In order to have people of known power, those people have to play ranked. But we just agreed to not force people to play ranked.
Isn’t this intractable?
Of course, there is one twist on the story: we might at least do a better job of indicating if we don’t know someone’s power.
I don’t think the discussion on that topic has progressed since the last thread we had about it, where it got stuck.
At that time, my feeling was that we should make glicko “uncertainty” work for us, because that’s precisely what it can tell us. Why invent a new way of determining rank uncertainty when there is one built in already - don’t we just need to make it work?
2 Likes
Exactly the bold bit, the desire is not to make it so that ALL users on OGS have a reliable rating, that cannot be forced given people are allowed to play all/mostly unranked games. The desire is to be able to matchmake with people of a reliable rating, so a way to be alerted to and avoid those with unreliable ratings, like this 3k with 100 wins in a row.
1 Like
Yep exactly.
The things is than when people create challenge, even unranked, a rank is displayed and poeple will inherently rely on this rank as an estimation of if that matchup is interesting to accept or not.
Of course, no one asking for unranked game challenge to display 100% accurate rank…there is a reason why it’s unranked. I do get a good of good unranked matchup who are poeple around their rank who want to try different strategy of don’t feel like they are playing well this day so they want to chill of whatever.
But the problem is than there is quite a lot of extreme case on the server. People who basically played only 4-5 ranked game ever when they started the account (usually the bare minimum to get a rank displayed)… and then been playing unranked and only unranked for month is not years after often getting like 90%+ win rate. And they are clearly doing this to trick people intro accepting their challenge to bully them.
Just doing somethings like flagging them in interface if they have, for example, played more than X unranked game in a row without playing a ranked game. of if they have not played ranked in x time would already be a very nice indicator than that person might be much stronger than the displayed rank.
Now, some of them might try to manipulate those occasional ranked game to keep their rank low anyway…but if they do at least it will give mod weapon to take action again them (if they for example play only one, and always one ranked game and month and do something’s like resign when ahead of whatever, should be a easy flag)
Yea, just a uncertainty warn would already be a great improvement.
The goal is not to make the rank displayed in unranked game offer 100% accurate. There is a good portion of the community who play a good share of ranked game on a regular basis and use unrakned when they feel tired or want to chill or try out new things not wanting to risk rank as they expect to not play their best go… And that perfectly fine.
The idea is jus to flag the EXTREME case. I seen over a dozen of account with the same pattern. They played like 4-5 ranked game when they created the account (usually the bare minimum to set up the rank)…and then basically never played a other ranked game ever, playing hundreds and hundreds of unranked game with like 90% win+… Those are definitively not playing only unranked because they want to try new strategy or chill out, they play only unranked because they want to keep the low rank on purpose for the sole reason of fooling weaker player to play again them.
A simple uncertainty marker after X unranked game without ranked in a row or X time without ranked when posting unranked game challenge would already help player being warn without having to go trough player history every single time.
Now I suspect than if that happen those player might start to play some ranked game to get rid of the mark and likely try to manipulate those one to keep their rank low, but at least that should give easy flag for mod to take action for proper sangbagging.
No, if they have half a brain, they will just start sandbagging in ways that you obviously know nothing about. Consequently, a comparatively innocuous sandbagger will be turned into a more effective and more damaging sandbagger. Not a good exchange.
If people who have half a brain do X that you know nothing about, does it mean you have less than half a brain?
in KGS there was a ~ for players who play players with better rank all the time, which the player itself didn’t see, but everyone else.
Would this be a possibility for unranked players, who win 90% of all games?
Let’s say, the ~ comes up only in the challenge box with an additional info when hovering over → this player has an extremely high winrate, the rank may not be accurate.
Players, who don’t care can still play with them.
Players who don’t want to have an additional feature that warns them
I’ve experienced the disadvantages of the ? (explained here).
What are the disadvantages of showing the total number of wins / total games in the past [X periods] (e.g. past 3 months) for an individual? That’s personally my favourite out of all the suggestions.
1 Like
It’s not that difficult to get rid of though…
It’s not that difficult to get rid of though…
That wasn’t my experience on KGS… Did you even read the entire comment?
Let’s talk about this one. It might be easy to implement, it might do the trick. Thoughts?
Someone playing only against opponents some ranks weaker will have a high win rate.
1 Like