1s per move ranked games

Is it ok if a player’s rank reflects how fast a he/she can click and not his/her skill?

A player reached 1d by playing ultra blitz games and winning by timeout. His real rank is ~10k.
His opponents accepted it before starting and they were warned about the unusual time settings so we can’t really blame him. But I guess they weren’t really aware of how fast their game was going to be.

About the warning ( immagine) , there is a huge difference between 4 and 1 second per move, IMHO, but they get the same warning. Custom komi (that often is 5.5 or 6.5) gets the same warning too. I suppose many players accept the game without checking. It happened to me sometimes too.
Maybe it should be changed? How, in your opinion?

It is possible to finish 1s per move games ( ex: 1 2 3 4 ) and I personally find them very fun, but it’s mostly about how fast you can click. Skill matters very little. I don’t think they should be ranked.

With this topic, my intention is not to blame this player. What he did is allowed by the rules. It’s just the system that MAYBE is wrong and could be exploited by many other users. Everyone can be a dan player in this way.

I have already reported it to moderators and one suggested to raise it here :slight_smile:

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I’ve changed it. I’m sorry

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Let’s accept the premise that 1s is too fast to play real go. Okay, so where should the new arbitrary line be drawn? Is 2s real go? How about 3, 4, 5, 10, 1 minute, 1 hour? When does the arbitrary amount of time we allocate to a move become authentic? Is there some way we can derive a real answer from data, or do we base it on the general feel of the discussion?

Personally I find 30s per move is unplayably fast at any acceptable depth of reading, but I would certainly not attempt to tell others that this speed is invalid.

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I can assure you I cannot. :stuck_out_tongue::wink:

I guess an argument would be that fast thinking is part of the game, but online connectivity is an issue.

I mean, I would love to see really strong players play ultra fast and see how they do in complex fights or endgame for example, but as a means to rank up, I think it’s one of those “lawful but questionable” cases.

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Given that the site uses a single rank for all time speeds and board sizes (the others are cosmetic), I think it’s inadvisable to allow rank manipulation through such games.

It’s true that a warning is offered to opponents thanks to @GreenAsJade IIRC but anyone facing an inflated opponent in a regular game is being deceived by their rank and provided no warning that they are having their time wasted.

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There is a difference beyond thinking time, on about how quick you can press a button.

I don’t really care if OGS estimate this at 2s or 3s but i care that this difference is made. And it will be great that these games are not part of the rating.

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just tried 1s increment up to 5 minutes. Opponent was unable to sustain it and timeouted, so its basically equal to absolute time.
maybe 2 seconds may be allowed, but 1 second surely should not be not allowed in ranked

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Because being high rated can be part of the fun, i’m not against a separated rating for pressbutton go. Each one his pleasure.

with 2 seconds increment it was easy to sustain, lower ranked opponent managed to mine more time and win by 17.5 points

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:thinking:… Although 1sec/move is certain that opponent doesn’t use AI to cheat, they’d have no time.

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Goquest uses:

  • 9x9 3min+1s/move.
  • 13x13 5min+3s/move.
  • 19x19 5min+3s/move.

Because ogs already has the best/most different options for timesettings, i think it would be weird to remove options which are used elsewhere.

I think that we should allow users to use the same settings as other servers, im sure there are many users who actually like playing under those very fast settings (im making this assumption because people are indeed playing on goquest with those settings).

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3 minutes is very different from 5 seconds. You can finish a game without too much time pressure in less than 3 minutes.

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then less than 3 mins main time should not be allowed in ranked if byo yomi is 1s/move

If both players mutually agree to the settings, why not?

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because most humans have limited ability to understand what they agree with

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It’s not just about the agreement between the 2 players, but about the agreement that the result is integrated in the rating.

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then, rank will display their ability to understand time settings INSTEAD of ability to play Go

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Too many people are dumb, so all must be deprived?

Anoek decided the rank lower bound based on when handicap stones stopped significantly effect game result. Maybe he can do the same with time settings?

If your theory is correct, there should be some observable point where rank stops predicting the result of games of a certain speed… Right?

To me, this approach makes more sense than /I think this is too fast so nobody should be allowed to play it./

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Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if ranked play was restricted to certain pre-defined standard time settings (which, I think, is how it’s done on Fox for example).

Unranked can still be whatever crazy stuff people like to come up with.

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I think _Sofiam tendered the original player as evidence of this: a person who is otherwise 10 can be a dan at 1s speed.

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