If we’re going to propose removing features, i think it should be the Absolute time control. It makes no sense in the game of Go.
Edit: now that this comment has been promoted to a top-level post I’ll add some context:
I’m not actually proposing to remove time controls, and I can understand that there may be some special circumstances where Absolute time is chosen (though a very short Byoyomi period/Fischer increment would be sufficient in many of those cases). My comment was in response to a complaint about the Anti-stalling feature: that it was used in a game where the poster could have won on time, but lost by “Server Decision” in the endgame. IMO, the anti-stall feature prevents a lot of bad situations, and I don’t think we should remove it just because it affects Absolute time players ability to win (stall?) on time.
I agree - when people reported stalling/playing-the-clock behaviour at the end of absolute time games, I would just say “FFS, why are you playing absolute time… what did you expect?”
(Although now CMs handle these so, I don’t anymore )
Honestly there’s no reason to remove something that people enjoy.
It actually does make sense in the game of Go, and for many years the Friday before the Confucius Cup in Dublin, there’s a Rapid tournament with absolute time, 18mins, 16mins, 14, 12, 10 etc and what absolute time guarantees is that the round actually ends on time. We actually have a limited time in the venue usually for the rapid, and it’s supposed to be a fun warmup with some prizes.
Anyway, the argument I would agree with is that absolute time, below a certain amount, probably shouldn’t be ranked, or maybe be in a separate category. The same can be said for really low byo-yomi or Fischer increment, depending on the main time. 5s+1s, I bet people could play with practice and good internet on 9x9 anyway, but whether it should be ranked in the name category as automatch blitz etc I’m not sure.
Even in that game, it seems a bit like they are playing Clock, not Go. Black is was ahead by 50+ but white simply needs to pick a fight and keep clicking faster.
Oh lol i didnt realize this was a high handicap game. I take back my earlier comment about not playing Go. It makes sense that one would play on expecting to close the gap.
I should clarify that I dont really care if Absolute time exists, and it’s good people are free to use it.
However, we could think similarly about the anti-Stalling button. For someone who pressed the button:
Were they having fun?
Did they press the button for a reason?
Should we penalize them for using it? Take that button away?
It’s fine to play absolute, but I don’t think anyone should expect to take any win/loss so seriously
If absolute were going to be disabled due to abuse being possible or common, wouldn’t it make more sense to disable to disable it for rated games only ?
(just due to possible rank distortion – I’ve seen various cases of that including people being 3-6+ stones stronger from continuing to play stuff like infilling their territory to ruun the other player out of time )
(not suggesting to disable it, though, and sometimes in correspondence games, the Fast correspondence or other groups use it for tournaments – it seems to cause less trouble with stalling there than in live too, perhaps ?)
I’m sure there are a lot of interesting situations in which people would like to play them and have seen it in some real tournaments, too.
(never encountered anyone trying to abuse it in the few real tournaments I saw either, it seemed more for creating set end/start round times, though I wonder what would happen if it were rated, if the coefficient would have to be very low )
For the arguments of removing the button, it’s a tradeoff of abusing the button and helping people end games fairly, when the opponent isn’t playing fairly.
There’s a whole thread calling it a Go variant, and not really Go, like three-pass go.
I don’t know what the best case is there, but probably we shouldn’t offer someone a button to press and then punish them for using it.
I think you could say something about the resign button, maybe it came up earlier, but resign is always a legitimate move, it’s just whether the intentions are based on the game itself or factors like can the game be finished given time constraints, or external ideas of sandbagging your rank over multiple games. That one is at least slightly different.
That’s not a solution to the problem: the problem is people playing-the-clock stalling moves in this time setting, which results in other people reporting it and creating moderation load.
Each one of those is a load even to tell them “if you don’t like it don’t choose that time setting”.
I’ve already clarified in this thread - I don’t actually think we need to remove Absolute time. But by god, don’t come complain that you didn’t win a game where youre behind by 160 pts on move 311!
I do occasionally play absolute time games, but I find the less stressful way to approach them is expect to lose every game to a stalling douchebag, so when you occasionally meet a player who isn’t and you can actually win a game you are massively winning you are pleasantly surprised and have some faith in humanity restored.
If people are experiencing issues with online absolute time games, imagine playing OTB absolute time games. Yes, they do exist and I’ve played so many of them in my life.
I think most of our amateur tournaments in the kyu to low dan brackets still use absolute time, however, we sometimes have a “flexible setting” usually for the very low-ranked brackets to give them 2 x 20 seconds byoyomi to finish the games (not always needed, sometimes they just finish before they are needed). The high dan groups generally have byoyomi but often shorter like 2 x10, or 2 x 15.
The reason why those in the “middle” required absolute timers is due to they often have too many players in one bracket (sometimes we even need to split to different groups within the same bracket), they often need to play 5 to 6 rounds a day. Without absolute time, everyone will all be waiting for one last long game in byoyomi before the next round can begin. (But for high dans and very low kyu, they have fewer players in the bracket and can afford the wait a bit longer.
Help players who often partake for the first time at low ranks in tournaments, and let them accumulate experiences to finish and score their games are important.
And once they realize they are the holdouts and everyone around them is waiting and even coming to watch them finish, they will learn the importance of time management and adapt to absolute time better the next round and in future tournaments.
At the EGC 2024, the Rapid tournament was Fischer 30m+1s. If a player makes 120 moves during the game, his total time becomes 32 minutes. So Fischer with a very small increment allows to predict when all games will finish, while reducing the probability to lose on time if your opponent makes silly moves at the end of the game.
I’ll add some context:
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If your time runs out you lose unless there are special situations