I’d like to tell you what I encountered just now, my opponent refused to click the button of “accept removed stones” to finish the game, obviously he had lost this game already. Finally, I have to select “cancel and resume” to continue this game and took a half hour for waiting the overtime.
I’m real a patient and friendly guy, but I just worry about this dishonest guy would wast the time for other OGSers afterwards.
So, I advise to add the users rating functions after each game, and also add the rating filter function when creating a new game. Thus, I think OGSers could easily recognize the dishonest guys and bridge them when open a new game.
It’s a very good GO game platform compared with other sites out there,hope OGS more and more popular, and expect my idea could be put into effect if reasonable, thanks.
So you mean that we would rate our opponents on a scale of 1-5 or something?
Thumbs up and thumbs down will suffice I think. Just need to show the number of rating.
For the filter, the % of rating can be set I guess
Also, to stop possible abuse, It should be only once that one account can rate someone, not every time they play or once a day.
While I find the idea itself very nice, my personal experience with such systems is, that they cause a lot of drama and trouble, and while maybe resolving the bad behavior issues, they create new ones, and new problems.
Personally, I would find an ignore-list and an easy, visible report-player option a lot better. You can then report your issue with the other player. (e.g. bad behavior, insulting, cheating, harassing, being a troll, etc.)
In addition to that, reports mark the player and mods and admins can see these reports on the players profile invisibly, and punish/ban trolls much more efficiently.
I could also imagine a system where you can rate a player positively after a game. (e.g: +1 for being a good player), but NOT negatively, similar to the “give trophy” function on a site like chess.com.
I’d be happy to hear other people’s opinions about this as well!
I have had a similar experience some time.
Like an earlier poster wrote, I believe a personal “black list” could be used to avoid playing such a player again. Depending on the number of refuse to accept dead stones players, a channel to get a third party attention to solve the status of stones could be an option.
To me it seems refusal in the dead-stone phase, is correlated with the opponent being new to this game. So, just having a third neutral person should be sufficient to convince them.
What about automated system?
- pop a warning after ten or so minutes if user is online to finish scoring
- send a warning if user is offline after an hour or so to finish scoring
- flag if user fails to comply
- ban for limited time after repeated offences?
+1 for the automated idea.
Take humans out of the equation as much as possible.
I do shorter. Shouldn’t take more than three minutes to figure out if the count can move forward or the game needs to continue.
Beyond this point, you are automatically assumed to be causing problems.
For example, if someone is mystified by Seki then cancel and prove to them that they should have taken the Seki.
That’s the only thing I can think of that would delay a game. And there is always the pause button to discuss.
Didn’t the developers already say they were doing a countdown timer for the count?
And then there is the cultural issue. We need to make sure all new players understand that losing their first 100 games is pretty much the price you pay to become a go player so don’t be a clown.
If my opponent doesn’t understand seki, how I can prove something to him? If I try to capture, I self-atari.
I actually also like the automated idea. If I remember correctly, the devs have something in their mind already, to resolve stone counting issues. Perhaps it is what was suggested by SunPin and and testerq? I do not remember 100% correctly.
Thanks for all the suggestions though!
Hello! I think a good rating users function would be the karma system that was previously used by kaya.gs would be nice… maybe a karma and a devil system thumbs down for bad player and thumbs up for good player! and no I don’t mean a good or bad player by rating I mean by the way a person acts and how they help others!
I found it a great idea to introduce a local currency system.
Some Asian go servers have such systems, but mainly for gamble (which they love), but it can be used for many more purposes. It is fun to collect points and it might be an incentive for players to behave better, or give to each other as a reward for teaching / commenting on a game.
Here are some things (some really take effort to realize them, but the system itself should is easy to implement)
Gamble (introducing gambling would already be good to get more Asian players on the server):
- During games, gamble on who will be the winner (on Asian servers, this was only possible in the first 50 moves)
- During games, gamble on what will be the next move.
- Dare other players to play for OGS Points.
Reward / Medals:
- points can be given for winning tournaments, games, or simply for playing a game and score it right.
- If somebody gave good teaching/comments, other players can give/buy teaching medals or similar.
But Mascots / Hand Fan / themes / server intensive tasks:
With OGS points, later you could introducing buying mascots or hand fans, which will stay as a picture next to your avatar. Possibilities are endless, like buy exclusive/nice themes for stones and board after you gained enough points.
Observers can see: 'Wow, Pempu just bought a nice kaga board, i want to play him too"
Also, server intensive tasks like score prediction can be made available only after buying with points, to help keep the server load low.
I like the gamble systems on other servers to kungfupanda its a lot of fun to collect the points : 3!
Trophies are enough, adding coins and gambling as reward would be overlapping features.
Personally I think if the dev have time to create a gambling feature I’d be much more appreciated if they spend that time to improve Go playing experience instead.
Adding a “currency” and/or “gambling” dynamic to the server could by very tricky to do properly, especially if the aim is to create an incentive mechanism to encourage better behavior.
If not implemented very carefully, it might even have the perverse effect of encouraging worse behavior, by possibly creating and motivating a class of players that become solely fixated on gaming the system to meaninglessly accumulate as much “points/currency” as possible while having little regard for etiquette. I would guess that the moderators on those Asian go servers may face a much larger volume of undesirable behavior from such players.
I’ve had some experience in the past with moderating a different gaming website, where games were played for points that were bet into a pot. These points had no inherent value beside allowing players to bet more in future games and being a mark of pride on the user’s profile. Unfortunately, the artificial scores of this system is enough to encourage some to cheat and cause grief.
In general, cheaters/griefers/trolls are a persistent problem that have to be managed. It’s almost inevitable, with a large enough stream of random people on the internet, that some will not care about etiquette or self-improvement, and instead care only about inflating their imaginary tally of “accomplishments” or causing grief only for the twisted satisfaction of causing grief in itself.
I agree with the “karma” system… I think this server should be about positiveness, so no “devils”… Personal blacklist will do if you want to filter out some players.
And if you get to a certain karma level, you win custom features such as changing your account color, unlocking new stuff and leveling up trust…Just like playing video games, which encourages good behavior!
Well, I would enjoy some kind of betting system :D! I would be happy with a karma system too ! I would prefer the karma system though also encourages people to do good deeds :D!
No need to introduce a public shaming system - just let individuals privately flag that user for various common problems. If it were possible to flag a user in-game rather than having to go to the forum or chat, it could expedite the process of reporting bad behaviour. Make the flag button clearly visible on screen to remind users that they can’t get away with bad go etiquette. Some kind of escalating warning/punishment system could be used for repeat offenders.
Of course there’s no reason that a positive rating system couldn’t be used as well to encourage good behaviour.
I can guarantee, almost 100%, that we will never have a gambling system here.
Anything that could even remotely be construed as illegal by our state, local, or federal authorities we won’t touch.
We will be implementing a personal blacklist in the near future though. I’ve never been too happy with generic karma systems… such as the one implemented by Kaya.
I understand @matburt’s decisions. After all, gambling is NEVER a thing you should try to do on a Go server - Go playing is about the spirit, respect, and character-building, not something materialistic.
About the karma system, I think it’s good and encouraging to set up some awards for players who regularly help out, such as organizing good tournaments, reviewing and showing dedication. Those new features will be cool and motivational for people!
To add some historical flair to this post. Personally, I’m very glad we won’t have gambling!
###This was a far cry from the early Confucian complaints and the citations in old Japanese, Chinese and Tibetan chronicles about the pervasiveness of gambling in the game. In fact, as early as c. 6-700 BC, a character for ‘gambling’ might have been synonymous with the character for wei qi. Today, as seen in traditional Korean, Japanese and Chinese clubs, and so vividly demonstrated in the modern Korean novel, First Kyu, the go culture is still actively involved in this activity. It just stays out of sight and under the tables and is not generally talked or written about, especially in popular go histories (and not at all in academia). […] Long before this sanctification of go play, Mencius and Han Confucians complained bitterly about gambling and the passions that were so easily aroused by playing. […] In fact, despite its aura of dignity, professional go is still an act of gambling, though the stakes are put up by a third party.
Peter Shotwell, Speculations on its Origins and Symbolism in Ancient China, 2002