AI in Reviews?

I notice that KGS has AI available in game reviews, which is really nice. Is there any way we can get AI available in reviews here on OGS? I would think that is where AI would be most useful.

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I think they mean in review as opposed to post game.

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To my knowledge, this doesn’t support AI in user-created reviews of games; it only shows the AI review on the game page itself.

Having AI in reviews would be extremely helpful, since normally when I review games with others, we have to keep tabbing back and forth between the two pages. Would also be extremely useful for AGA broadcasts; Hajin Lee was asking about this feature at one point.

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Ohhh I missed that they meant inside user reviews. Thought they were just asking for the ability to review games with AI, my bad.

TMK this was discussed and the users wanted human comments / reviews kept seperate from AI moves and so that is why it’s visible in one and not the other… I guess if there is enough support for the idea it could be visible in both…

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Did we always have the ability to disable AI review? If not, maybe that feature solved the issue?

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It wasn’t a day 1 feature, but it was one of the first fixes that was added very soon after IIRC

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Maybe it’s related to the bugs with AI review markings still showing up after it’s disabled? I could see wanting to be able to rely on the review at least to be clean. I guess in that case you could just keep it off, though.

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I wonder if it would be possible to, rather than having it be automatic, have some kind of “Import AI” button within reviews that checks the main game for an AI review and pulls it over if it exists :thinking:

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I mean inside user reviews. If people want only the human perspective inside their human reviews they can turn off AI, just as they can turn it off if they are clicking through the game after it is finished without starting a review.

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Perhaps we need to encourage streamers and teachers to ask for AI to be available in the reviews that they start. If someone is doing a review for someone they will want the student to be able to have variations preserved, which a review will do. This requires two windows, as you point out. I had a streamer do a review for me with AI and it would have been nice to have variations, but to be able to access AI easily he did not start an actual review. Ideally I would prefer to see a teacher be able to review with AI mostly disabled for most of the time to give me their human perspective, but they should be able to turn AI on easily to check a situation against their own thinking without needing to jump to a second window.

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I’ve thought of specifically suggesting that Pro accounts be given access to this kind of feature, since I imagine having widely-available AI baked into reviews of ongoing games might otherwise raise a few eyebrows, though I’d personally be in favor of it in general.

But having this feature available for pros would mean the live commentary they provide would basically lack nothing that the broadcasts we see in Korea and Japan have.

I know what they say about keeping up with the Joneses but someone’s keeping up with the joneses is exciting :sweat_smile:

But if not for reviews of ongoing live games, I definitely agree that this feature would be incredibly useful post-game for lots of people

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I would never want to see it available in ongoing games, only after games are finished.

Having it available for teachers to use with student reviews would be great. Teachers who pay for AI really ought to be able to use it on any student game even if the student has not paid for AI.

This also raises the question of what constitutes a teacher. Is a 10k streamer who reviews games for weaker players a teacher? I think so.

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I didn’t read all the comments here (please excuse me) but I do think it’s pretty strange/backwards that after clicking “review this game” you don’t have access to any AI features, very strange indeed. It’s been an inconvenience to me many times reviewing games on stream, for instance (of course I’m still grateful for having OGS and its many features).

I’m absolutely in favor of making it available in reviews. If anything, does it even need to be available in non-review mode? I’m not suggesting to remove it from there, but the current setup seems odd.

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I think it could be possible to allow AI analysis within review of ongoing games provided that this capability and analysis output is blocked from the players of the game. This should probably require spectators viewing the review (from the OGS interface) to be logged in (i.e., don’t show the AI analysis results to logged out anonymous users, until the game is over). Actually, even without AI being used, the players should probably be blocked from viewing a simultaneous review of their own game altogether.

There is still the risk that a player might view the video stream (which is external to OGS, on a site like Twitch or YoutTube), but they should not be viewing the live stream analysis of their own game anyways, and such streamers could anyways still be producing AI analysis with other tools (external to OGS) and/or providing strong human analysis/commentary.

If it’s a feature that could make OGS a stronger platform to support promoting Go, then I think these risks are worth it, and can be adequately mitigated.

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Generally I’m in favor of not withholding useful tools and features just because they could potentially help cheaters.

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If you start a review it posts to chat. If players are using AI review of games they are playing it’s going to be pretty obvious.

I’ve never seen an opponent start a review of a game I’m in progress on, if I did I would call a mod.

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I’d be with you if weren’t so easy to start a review of a running game, therefore, IF AI review will ever be available inside of user reviews, this should only be available after the game is finished. Too easy for cheaters to just log out or use another acct.

Even understanding that this will occur to some extent, I don’t think most players would, and I think there’s a lot of legitimate use which could be made out of this by spectators.

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I think I vaguely remember someone mentioning something like that, to try and mimic KGS’s teaching game mode. That is to be able to more or less pause the game, discuss/demo some variations and resume…

I can’t remember if it’s possible, maybe it is, and the memory was that someone didn’t like having to swap tabs to back and forth to the review.

That’s obviously a different use case though

I’m pretty happy with the current setup, in that I’m mostly reviewing my games by myself, so I don’t really need to start an actual review of the game. I also don’t really see myself coming back and re-reading a review I might’ve made a while ago. Unless I made it really detailed with notes it probably wouldn’t be worth it.

Anyway that’s not to say it wouldn’t be good to have AI analysis in review mode. I mean we do have the katago score estimator in review mode, which is something, but of course with the board markings etc it would be more convenient.

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