Amazons + Go: the first game

[ArsenLapin1]

L11-H11, L8

https://vsotvep.github.io/MulticolorGo.html?st=aceahabcabgdbhbbiabjbccbcdacgachacibdabdcdddadeedhadiaebaecbefbegaehbekbfdaffafgdfhbgcegfaggagiagjbhaehbahfahgbhhbhiahjbicbidbiebifbigaihaiibijbjbbjebkbdkdakfakgbkia&bs=11

[antonTobi]

L10-K9, J10
https://vsotvep.github.io/MulticolorGo.html?st=aceahabcabgdbhbbiabjbccbcdacgachacibdabdcdddadeedhadiaebaecbefbegaehbekbfdaffafgdfhbgcegfaggagiagjbhaehbahfahgbhhbhiahjbibbicbidbiebifbigaihaiibijbjbbjcdjebkdakfakgbkia&bs=11

[ArsenLapin1]

D7-E8, C6
https://vsotvep.github.io/MulticolorGo.html?st=aceahabcabgdbhbbiabjbccbcdacfacgachacibdabdcdddadhadiaebaecbedeefbegaehbekbfdaffafgdfhbgcegfaggagiagjbhaehbahfahgbhhbhiahjbibbicbidbiebifbigaihaiibijbjbbjcdjebkdakfakgbkia&bs=11

[antonTobi]

B5-B7, A8
https://vsotvep.github.io/MulticolorGo.html?st=aceadbahabcabedbhbbiabjbccbcdacfacgachacibdabdcdddadhadiaebaecbedeefbegaehbekbfdaffafgdfhbgcegfaggagiagjbhaehbahfahgbhhbhiahjbibbicbidbiebifbigaihaiibijbjbbjcdjebkdakfakgbkia&bs=11

[ArsenLapin1]

G9-E11, D10
https://vsotvep.github.io/MulticolorGo.html?st=aceadbahabcabedbhbbiabjbccbcdacfacgachacibdabdbadcdddadhadiaeaeebaecbedeefbegaehbekbfdaffafgdfhbgfaggagiagjbhaehbahfahgbhhbhiahjbibbicbidbiebifbigaihaiibijbjbbjcdjebkdakfakgbkia&bs=11

[antonTobi]

D9-C10, D9

[ArsenLapin1]

A9-B10, C11

https://vsotvep.github.io/MulticolorGo.html?st=adbahabbebcabedbhbbiabjbcaacbdccbcdacfacgachacibdabdbadcbddadhadiaeaeebaecbedeefbegaehbekbfdaffafgdfhbgfaggagiagjbhaehbahfahgbhhbhiahjbibbicbidbiebifbigaihaiibijbjbbjcdjebkdakfakgbkia&bs=11

[antonTobi]

B7-C7, A9
https://vsotvep.github.io/MulticolorGo.html?st=acbadbahabbebcabhbbiabjbcaacbdccbcdacedcfacgachacibdabdbadcbddadhadiaeaeebaecbedeefbegaehbekbfdaffafgdfhbgfaggagiagjbhaehbahfahgbhhbhiahjbibbicbidbiebifbigaihaiibijbjbbjcdjebkdakfakgbkia&bs=11

[yebellz]

[antonTobi]

Some off-topic thoughts about which groups would be killable in the "amazons = go stones"-variant

In the position from the current game, my C9-chain would be easy to capture:

So how hard would it be to make life in general? Certainly two eyes is not a requirement! For instance, this white chain lives, since blue can never shoot to B9:

By contrast, these white stones can be killed:

But funnily enough, if we add a black stone on A8, white is alive again!

Pop quiz: can blue kill all the white stones?

[shinuito]

@ArsenLapin1

I feel like I have already lost by a large margin.

I haven’t really been paying that much attention move for move, but is it because it looks like White/yellow is the only one with access to the right side and bottom of the board to play in?

[shinuito]

@antonTobi

killable in the “amazons = go stones”-variant

That’s where the amazons can also be (self) captured? Or just that they fill liberties by being beside groups?

[antonTobi]

Yes, these areas are secure territory where yellow will be able to make one move for each orange stone:

[yebellz]

Quiz response

@antonTobi

Pop quiz: can blue kill all the white stones?

Yes

D7, shoot E7
E8, shoot D9
D7, shoot E8
C7, shoot D7
B7, shoot C7
A8, shoot B9
A7, shoot A8

EDIT: oh whoops, just realized that you asking under the other variant. The above analysis is for the current rules used in the ongoing game.

EDIT2: I guess the above still works under both rules.

[antonTobi]

See here:

@ArsenLapin1

For future games, an interesting thing we could try is with Amazons counting as go stones of the same colour as the stones of that player. If an Amazon touches a chain of stones of the same colour/player, then it is connected to that chain. Amazons can remove liberties, and they can even be captured.

[antonTobi]

@yebellz

EDIT: oh whoops, just realized that you asking under the other variant. The above analysis is for the current rules used in the ongoing game.

EDIT2: I guess the above still works under both rules.

I think there may be a slight misunderstanding of the current rules: Amazons do not take liberties. This makes the stones you shoot to D9 and B9 suicidal moves - so that group is in fact not killable under current rules.

[shinuito]

I suppose it could be interesting although somewhat harder to have them as their own independent color of stone where you could end up self capturing in an eye of your own group

They might work as well to plug gaps in walls if they don’t join together stones. But maybe that’s part of the fun

[yebellz]

Oh, I see. I misunderstood and misread.

Since suicidal arrow shots are allowed (even one stone suicides?), it seems like a one could loop a local position indefinitely (under the current immortal Amazons rules)

[antonTobi]

Edit: @yebellz beat me to it! (the below example shows that the problem would persist even without immortal amazons)

Here’s one broken part of the current rules, that I think probably won’t come up in the current game:

In this position, blue can shoot infinitely many times to A9. (winning the game, unless yellow has a similar option)

This could be fixed by disallowing suicide, or by switching to some kind of go scoring (stone scoring feels like the most natural choice to me).

[antonTobi]

@shinuito

I suppose it could be interesting although somewhat harder to have them as their own independent color of stone where you could end up self capturing in an eye of your own group

It sounds logical for them to be their own color given how we represent them graphically, but I prefer the way @ArsenLapin1 suggested where they are simply black/white stones. On the current board, I think it feels “correct” that this yellow stone has liberties by being connected to the white stones:

Note that you still need to watch out for some forms of self-capture though! Like here, yellow mustn’t make another move:

(assuming stone scoring - otherwise suiciding is a great strategy for yellow to gain more moves here!)

(edit: Just realized, suiciding would only be worth one extra move in this case, since the Amazon would be gone afterwards )