Blitz games not counted properly

This is known to be “By Design” (Not a Bug).

Also see Overall rank calculation - #2 by Eugene

I understand that the overall rank is calculated differently than one might expect, and that some things might be “features not bugs” but why leave the blitz column if it will not be updated or used?

when there is “blitz” button which create games that not counted as blitz, there is only 1 correct word for this: “bug

7 Likes

Ah, I misunderstood.

I suppose the inconsistency in categorizing games as blitz / live / correspondence is indeed a bug.

I thought you wanted to report a bug about different ratings being calculated at all for different categories.

Ah, no I was talking about the blitz categorization.

I’ve looked into it before, but I don’t know for sure if the categorisation of live and blitz for the ratings is the same as for the symbols (it would make sense if it did, but it would make sense too if the “Blitz” games were counted as Blitz for ratings too :slight_smile:)

One idea was

Just remove the word Blitz from the automatch. I imagine that’s quicker and less confusing than changing the time control assigned to that button (and all the tournaments etc) so that they’re counted as Blitz. We just need to tell people that “Rapid” is still counted as live.

It still doesn’t solve the problem though I suppose, that people who want to play Blitz, and have a Blitz rating need to know what time settings to use. Maybe those thresholds need to be relooked at in any case.

Thanks @shinuito for bringing this to my attention again, I reckon the best fix would be to actually make those blitz games, ie dropping the average move time down below 10s per move. So poll time, what should be the time increment / byo yomi time ?

  • 5 seconds
  • 6 seconds
  • 7 seconds
  • 8 seconds
  • 9 seconds

0 voters

I’ll update both the site wide scheduled tournaments and the automatch settings accordingly.

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also remove 10s from blitz in custom game creation, this option already also exists in live category

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Do we know what’s the blitz setting on other servers ? It could make sense to be consistent if we have no specific argument otherwise.

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I’d welcome that information

I don’t really understand the poll sorry.
I think a 10s /move is blitz and there is no option to vote for. The OP was requesting a blitz 10s to be counted as blitz, not as live. So the idea was more to enlarge as to reduce what games are considered blitz.

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Once upon a time in a poll long long ago 10s was voted as the cutoff, and changing that has a lot of implications that are unpleasant - so that’s why it’s not listed. The solution is to make the things we called blitz games actually blitz games I reckon.

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Then what about 15 as the limit? Or 11 being live and 10 blitz ?

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I think 9s per move is fine, and so is 10s.

Besides the threshold for blitz, I feel that the computation of average move time might be improved a bit. In practice, 9s byoyomi is less average move time than a 9s increment. And for basic time, I feel that the board size should also be taken into account to compute the average move time.

A month ago, I made some proposal to account for different time systems and board sizes: 1s per move ranked games - #69 by gennan

Applying those formulas to 19x19 with Byoyomi, 5m + 1x10s = 10s per move, while 4m + 1x10s = 9.5s per move.

Applying those formulas to 19x19 with Fischer, 4m + 9s = 10s per move, while 3m + 9s = 9.5s per move.

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In my opinion, it is not entirely correct to consider increments and byo yomi in the same way.
Playing with 5 seconds of increment per move is much easier than playing with 5 seconds of byo yomi, I would consider blitz only the latter.
I would put the limits like this:
between 3 and 4 seconds for fischer, and probably also as an average for Canadian time
between 6 and 7 seconds for byo yomi/simple
Absolute time is a bit more difficult to evaluate. I think 5 seconds per move (considering the average of moves played on a completed game on that board size) would fit.

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anything less than 9s as default will lead to mass timeouts and less correct rank
Those who wish can create something faster in custom

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In my opinion if players are not happy with the categorization it’s because it’s a bit strange to chose time setting just at the boundary between them (for Tournaments or automatch. )

Why not chosing a more “in between” value like 20s or 30s for live, and 7s for blitz to well differentiate each kind of games?

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I’d be completely ok with limiting automatch to a few defined time settings (as it is done on Fox for example), and keeping custom games for those who wish to deviate from it.

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Giving this poll a bump in case anyone else had opinions or wanted to vote.

I can link it in some of the chats on the main site.

Re: blitz on other servers, I think it’s something like

KGS - 1min+3x10s byo-yomi
IGS/pandanet - 1min+5mins/25 stones Canadian byo-yomi ~ 12s byo-yomi I guess?
Fox - I don’t know, I think I’ve seen 15s per move, maybe with some main time.
Tygem - 5min +3x30s seems to be the fastest automatch I can see.
WBaduk - I think it’s just negotiating after you get paired (I believe fox has a similar automatch, but a fast match is more like OGS’s automatch, going straight into a game.)

If anyone has any corrections please share them :slight_smile:

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Bump

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