Ah. I realized it so late.
i see your point exactly about those eyes, good explanationâ but here is my question thenâ- if black has white cornered why are those black stones considered white captured they has as black stones more outside free space than white has internal free space ? this is what i donât understand
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The black stones marked with squares in that example are alive. White did not, and wonât, capture them. The square markings were added simply as a visual aid for which stones he was talking about.
Iâm not sure I fully understand your question.
Letâs look at the whole board again (without markings):
We were only talking about the upper right corner yet - ignoring the rest of the board.
In that upper right corner white is alive with two eyes.
The big, large, black group in the center is certainly alive because it would be easy for it to create two eyes.
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If this is still mysterious, nothing obligé you to end the game now. You could continue to play until you get convinced that territories are settled. In other words, convinced about the eternal life of the groups of stones on the board delimiting de facto the controlled territories.
But for this to work successive passes by the same player should not occur, unless he gives a prisoner each time he passes (like in aga rules) . (Or the Japanese rules may have a different scoring)
After filling almost all the remaining free points you will teach a point in which you have only 2 eyes in each territory and if you fill one of them you will be killed so unique choice is passing.
Time to count who has more points (at this ultimate stage, prisoners will matter under Japanese rules, or quantity of stones played on the board under Chinese)
Usually the game ends before reaching this extrĂȘme situation because players guess much earlier who owns what in a full secure way. Or sometimes a bit of intuition and trust in the expertise of a stronger player help to stop the game at the right time.
I wanted to create a DEMO BOARD so you could play around with this if you want @dokbohm
You can start as Black and see which White groups you can capture / eliminate
or you can start as White and see if you can try to play any moves to save those two doomed groups - or if you want try to kill Blackâs big center
In this game, itâs important to understand what is possible, and what is impossible, given the back and forth of each personâs moves
If you can understand HOW and WHY Black can capture two of those corners, you will understand what makes a living group, and how you can create points in this game
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Thereâs two situations:
- The game is finished: Once a game has ended and the players agreed on the status of the stones, you can score a game precisely.
- The game is ongoing: it cannot be scored. You can, at best, try to make a very rough estimate of what the score could be at the end, but this is difficult and unless youâre very skilled (or the game is very near to the end), itâs mostly a gut feeling. Frankly as a beginner you shouldnât even bother with that.
You started this thread by asking how you count score âduring the gameâ, âas the game proceedsâ, and the answer is that you donât. Thatâs the very first answer you received.
Now, if you would like to post finished games of yours and ask explanations on how they were scored, Iâm sure many would be happy to help.
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Letâs start by a basic question @dokbohm. White to play, komi is 6.5, there are no captures. Can you estimate the score and explain how you obtained the estimate?
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ok then here is my guess: white has 11, and black has 12 i know this is probably wrong, but itâs my guess on what i know about this gameâs counting
i have [laced my stone but nothing is working so what do i do after placingthe stone
Yeah, itâs wrong, but your answer is still instructive. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the rules of the game are. This could be good news though.
You simply must go through a basic tutorial on the rules and goals of the game. It could help you immediately.
Please go through this entire tutorial and ask questions about anything you donât understand.
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How did you get those numbers??
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Just keep putting down stones - Black, then White, then Black
See what stones you can capture. Investigate what is possible and what is impossible
HINT: if you open the demo board, it should be Blackâs move - try playing A4 as Black and see what happens - Can White live in that corner?
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I think you have no idea how often this has been suggested to him already 
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and i keeo telling you those tutorial donât explain anything to me i can understnd
o i see one stone then another white blacl etc ok then i will continue to try this to see what it gives me
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I wanted to revisit this - maybe walk you through the tutorial step-by-step, and try to figure out where things get confusing for you
Letâs start with Lesson 2
In the above image, you see a count of how many LIBERTIES each stone has.
Single stones in the middle of the board have 4 liberties - think of liberties as âplaces that stone can connect with other stones of the same colorâ
At the edge, a single stone has 3 liberties, and in the corner a single stone has 2
The White group of 3 stones has 8 liberties. If Black wanted to capture that group, they would need to place 8 stones to remove all those liberties.
So, for any group on the board, you can count all of the vertical & horizontal lines radiating away from any group to count the liberties.
Stones can only stay on the board while they have some liberties left - when they lose their last liberty, they are captured.
So letâs pause here - does this make sense? Do you see how each stone or group radiates points of potential connection? And how - if the opponent surrounds that group or stone, they are taking those liberties away?
In the above image, White has almost surrounded both of Blackâs groups
The one stone in the center is down to its final liberty - we say it is in ATARI - and is about to be captured if White plays on that remaining liberty
Likewise with the group of 5 Black stones in the lower right corner - also in ATARI - again White is about to play on that last liberty and capture that whole group
Does this concept make sense? Do you have any questions about it? Is there anything about groups, liberties, or capturing stones that doesnât make sense to you?
Can you try the exercises at the end of Lesson 2 and capture the stones in Puzzles 1, 2, 3, and 4?
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these lessons where very helpful in me understnding a few basic principals more and the examples where spot on to what i see - so hopefully they will help me along
I have to admit that from your answers and questions in this thread I still canât tell where you are standing in your journey learning the game. Which makes it very difficult to provide proper advice.
It seems that some of the advice that has been given here (including my own) still is/was too high level.
Because of that, may I ask you to give the questions below a try:
How many points does white have?
How many points does black have?
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Hi @dokbohm I am glad to hear this is helping, and that the rules are becoming clearer to you
Now that you hopefully understand liberties, capturing, and atari a bit better, I wanted to check your understanding with the Living Example DEMO BOARD
There is ONE GROUP of White stones on the board that is currently in ATARI - meaning they are surrounded by Black and are down to their last liberty - meaning Black can capture them with one move
Can you please find that group of White stones that is in atari?
Can you tell me where Black can play one move to capture them?
I want to use the information from the Learn to Play Go tutorial in a practical, step-by-step way to help you understand the game. Can you please show me that you can apply what youâve learned?
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